Herreshoff Model's?

[Adam]

OK.... I've always been told that NGH designed his hulls by first making a carving. I had assumed both LFH and ASDH did the same. Wouldn't expect this with Halsey in the era of CAD programs....

Is this a true assumption?

Also, embarrassingly, I had never noticed that a number of the Herreshoff Models on the "wall" are not just by NGH or ASDH, but by NGH III, ASDH after the HMCo. day’s (IE, Cape Cod Shipbuilding for example), and Halsey. Question - Did LFH and ASDH "always" carve models - or did both also design via draft/paper at times? I see models well into the 70's, but also a number of known designs NOT on the wall...

[Steve]

well ... "Always" is a pretty strong word.  But, it is my understanding that both Nat and Sidney "always" used models to create their designs.  I have seen a letter written by Sidney that pretty much stated that.  I am not sure about the methodology employed by LFH, however.

I think a couple of the models are at MIT.

[Adam]

This is why I question - on the "wall" is a half model of the ASDH "Gemini" he did for Cape Cod Shipbuilding (1961). My hull, also 1961, is not there as far as I know. Now I have a copy that Wendy gave me of the "original" blueprint of my boat - in Mr. Sids handwriting. I always assumed that there was a model predating the blueprint.

Finding out that the "wall" has many of Mr. Sid's half models I wonder is it just not displayed? given away? at CCSB? or never existed and only the blue print did?

[HerreshoffHistory]

A few ASdeWH models are conspicuously missing:

#384p, Shuttle, Power commuter
#1074s, Sheerness, Aux. L-Boat
#388p, Stroller, Power cruiser
#393p, Ariel II, Power commuter
#1413s, Chick, Frostbite dinghy
#410p, Sheerness, Power yacht
#1519s, Sea Spider, Catamaran

However, three of them, Shuttle, Sheerness, and Stroller have their offset booklets at M.I.T., suggesting that there was a model...

[John Hutchison]

Having visited MIT last August, I can add that Sid's design model for his shoal draft FI23 #1225 Crusader (my boat) is in the basement vault there. I would guess there could be others there as well.  The 1212 fixed keel FI23 model is in the model room at HMM.
Its an interesting place to visit if you have a chance (by appointment only though).
John

[HerreshoffHistory]

Fascinating! Might you be able to share a few photos of that model?

I was aware of only eight models there:
XA2-1_11 Sport (1880, NGH; Steam yacht)
XA2-1_12 Leila (1878, NGH; Steam yacht)
XA2-1_13 Torpedo Boat for Russian Navy (1880, NGH; Navy torpedo steam boat)
XA2-1_14 Rainbow (1934, Burgess, W. S.; Cup Defender)
XA2-1_15 Katoura (1930, NGH; Power commuter)
XA2-1_16 Gamecock (1925, NGH; R-Boat)
XA2-1_5 Fishers Island Aux. Sloop (1926, ASdeWH and NGH; Fishers Island aux. sloop)
XA2-1_6 Northeast Harbor 40 sqm (1932, Potter, Nicolas; Northeast Harbor)

[HerreshoffHistory]

It occurred to me that I've seen a model of your boat. Isn't it the one in the upper right corner? And might that also be the one at M.I.T.?

Have a look at

http://i41.tinypic.com/sxhc2s.jpg

The gentleman looking towards you is the designer of your boat.

[Adam]

HH - Are there others that are missing? I read somewhere that Nat gave away one of the models to the Iselin Family - one of the cup defenders maybe?

[HerreshoffHistory]

Well, many models are missing, i.e. there are designs but not the corresponding model. On the other hand, there are also many models where the design is missing. And of course, many cases where the design and the model simply haven't been matched. It's a huge can of worms and one that I have slowly been trying to get a handle on.

There are a few Herreshoff models held outside the Herreshoff Model Room.

I have heard of several instances where N. G. Herreshoff gave away models. I have yet to see evidence that he did not make a copy of the model prior to giving it away.

[John Hutchison]

Attached are pics requested earlier by HerreshoffHistory for FI 23 #1225 model in storage in the vault at MIT. It was quite a thrill to see the original design model of "Crusader". You can see Sid's notations on the back.  I'll post some new pics of Crusader's restoration progress soon.

[Steve]

Thanks John

[HerreshoffHistory]

Wonderful! Thanks very much for posting these photos!

What happened to the centerboard? It's position looks very wrong on the photo.

Did you take any more photos, of this or the other HMCo models?

[John Hutchison]

This is MIT's record photo of #1225 "Crusader".  Unfortunately I didn't see other HMC models although they may have been there, somewhere.  The model included a CB but it was loose from the model.  I'm still hoping someone can provide info on Crusader's history. I'm about halfway through her restoration at this time.

[Steve]

Ya know John ... I have been thinking about adding a new rule to the forum: "No member engaged in a Herreshoff restoration may participate in forum discussions without first posting regular progress reports, complete with photos."

Whaddya think?   

[HerreshoffHistory]

Thank you for posting the image of the Crusader model! Very interesting!

Crusader being the Fisher's Island 23 with a centerboard, here is a photo of the regular Fisher's Island 23 model. This model, by the way, is one of the very few painted models at the Herreshoff Marine Museum, and, as the model of Crusader, is believed to have been intended for display purposes.