Author Topic: New York 40s  (Read 104642 times)

Steve

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New York 40s
« on: November 19, 2009, 08:10:52 PM »
I am trying to track down the whereabouts of 2 New York 40's:

TYPHOON (ex-MAISIE), #773,  is rumored to have been sailing in the Med as late as the mid-2000's.

WIZARD OF BRISTOL (ex-DOLLY BOWEN), #775, was last heard from in about 2003.  She was listed on Yacht World and lying in Hawaii.  The last known owner was Marvin "Chickie" Hyman, who chartered her out of Lahaina, Maui at least until the late 1980s.  At the time she was in need of extensive repairs due to toredo damage.

If anyone has any newer information on either if these, please do share.

Thanks.

-Steve

HerreshoffHistory

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 09:19:16 PM »
And while we are at it: What is the last year that Zilph, #777s was listed in the yacht registers? All the other NY40s are apparently accounted for.

Vixen III

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 06:27:34 PM »
I am new to the forum.  My father, Stephen S Lang, purchased a NY 40 in Essex, CT, in 1948.  My father was given 6 months to live and wanted to fulfill one of his life's goals.  Moving aboard with him was his wife, and son (that's me - 8 yrs old).  We set off shortly from Essex, never to return ~ ending up in St. Pete, FL in 1950, where my mother demanded to move ashore like "normal" people - especially since my father hadn't died!  Can you believe her guts, a non-sailor to set off on a NY40 with a man that could drop dead at any moment, and an 8 year old kid??!  Vixen had been modified below for live aboard, and my cabin included the mast in the bulkhead.  She had a true ICE box, gimbaled table and stove, etc.  I remember her well, as you would imagine after living aboard for three years, always on the go. 

This NY40 had the name Vixen III.  She was flush deck, cutter rig, but no gaff.  During a pass under a power line somewhere along a coastal channel, her mast was broken about 15' down and the rig permanently shortened.  After we moved ashore in St. Petersburg, Fl, my father raced her on the infamous St. Pete - Havana race a couple of times, winning her class on one occasion that I can remember.  After my father sold her in the early 50's, she hung around the St. Pete area for a number of years and the last I saw her she was moored in Bradenton/Palmetto area in pretty rough shape.  I am guessing that was late 50's. 

I have only a few pictures of her, and will need to try to find them.  I still have her ship's clock in my office, something my father kept from his beloved boat.  He lived for 11 wonderful years after his 6 month's "sentence", and I attribute this terrific boat for his everlasting peace.  Any idea of which boat this could have been in an earlier life, or later, would be greatly appreciated. 

BTW - I have re-mounted a fantastic photograph of H11 (visible sail number) of a NY 70, which I have found is that of Yankee.  When I contacted the Herreshoff museum, they seemed uninterested and provided no information on this magnificent boat.  She is under full sail probably somewhere in Long Island sound or up around Newport.  The picture has been slightly watercolored, possibly by my grandmother - who was an artist and contributor to the Smithsonion.

Below is a piece that I wrote and have posted next to the photograph, from what I could find on this boat.  Your verification, addition, etc.,  would be greatly appreciated.    Steve Lang

This is Yankee with the distinctive H11 on her sail.  She was designed by Nathanial (Capt Nat) Herreshoff and built at the Herreshoff yard in Bristol, Rhode Island in 1900.  She was one of four identical boats built for one-design racing.  They were the largest one-design yachts ever built.

These boats were designated New York Yacht Club 70’s, and were 106 feet long overall.  Their “70” designation, like many Herreshoff designs, was the length of the waterline.

In those days, her composite hull (wood planking over steel frame) was rather new.  The first year of use the NY 70’s gained a nickname of “leakabouts” because the hulls were not stiff enough to keep the wooden planking from “working” and therefore they leaked . . . a lot!  The hulls were later braced with steel trusses to stiffen the hulls so they could carry such massive rigs without full time bailing by the crew.

Yankee was owned by Harvey Paine Whitney and H.B. Duryea.  As was the standard of the day, Yankee was maintained and sailed by a professional crew, with the owners only aboard for day racing or a social sail with the ladies.  Their normal sailing venues were in and around Newport, RI, and sometimes down into Long Island sound.

These huge boats were virtually day sailers in that they had absolutely no furnishings below, simply a cavernous hull often filled with the Egyptian cotton sails of the day.   

The NYYC 70s were the first in a series of one-design yachts designed by Nat Herreshoff for members of the New York Yacht Club. Four NYYC 70’s were build in 1900, to be followed in succession by the famous NY 30's in 1905 (18 built), the NY 57s in 1907, the 50s in 1913, and the popular 40s in 1916 (24 built).   I lived aboard a NY 40 as a kid from 1948-51, sailing her from her berth in Essex, CT, up and down the eastern seaboard. 

Research continues into the history of Yankee and her owners.  It is highly unlikely that these magnificent boats were sailed more than 10-15 years.


Steve

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2009, 06:43:53 PM »
Steve: Welcome to the Forum.  This is a great story. 

There is a NY40 currently chartering in the Med named Vixen II.  She was built in 1916 as JESSICA, hull #779.   I wonder if this could be the one?

-Steve

Adam

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2009, 06:49:04 PM »
Steve - First, welcome to the site - Second, what a great story! Seems a bit of courage was more common place in those days - Your mother certainly had chutzpah (so did you - what an experience to live on a boat like that)! Curious - Can you give us any more on your Dad's boat? You say Essex, Ct - do you know from whom? Are there any sail numbers you know? I'd love to see some pics if you could scan/post them... Interesting there is a NY 40 named "Vixen II" (hull # 779):

« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 02:11:53 AM by Adam »

HerreshoffHistory

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 07:18:07 PM »
What a wonderful story!

HMCo #779s Jessica was renamed Vixen III in 1931, a name she kept until the 1970s when she became Vixen II. She is now in the Med, greatly altered from the original, and her wood hull has been replaced by a ferro cement hull. Her rig was converted from sloop to schooner in 1978. The upcoming book on Mariette and the Herreshoff schooners by Jacques Taglang will contain a short section about her. If you send me a private email with your email address I can also send you her factsheet which may contain some info you hadn't seen.

HMCo #534s Yankee, the NY 70 from 1900 was sold by Harry Maxwell in 1909 to have her fittings and keel removed and be used as a houseboat but was reported to have been broken up in 1910. J. Rogers Maxwell, Harry's father who had her built by Herreshoff, was once quoted with saying: "I had more real racing pleasure with the Yankee than with any other yacht I ever owned." Again, if you are interested I can send you Yankee's factsheet.

Adam

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 08:18:55 PM »
How does one replace a wood hull with Ferro Cement?

Steve

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 10:57:38 PM »
I understand that the ferro-cement job was done to save a rotting hull.

I believe I have captured the provenace from this highly entertaining thread properly in the Registry ... if anything appears amiss, please let me know.

HerreshoffHistory

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2009, 02:23:40 PM »
Provenance of HMCo #779s Jessica, from Jacques Taglang's forthcoming book on Mariette and the Herreshoff schooners (and I hope with his permission to quote him):

- 1916-1919: Wilson Marshall, Jr. from Bridgeport, Connecticut --- Jessica. Home port: Bridge Port, Conn. Port of registry: New York

- 1920-1926: Spencer Borden, Jr. from Fall River, Mass. --- Sally-Ann. Home port and port of registry: Fall River, Massachusetts

- 1927-1929: Edwin D. Morgan from New York --- Jessica. Home port and port of registry: New York

- 1930-1931: William O. Gay from New York --- Jessica: Home port: Southampton, Long Island. Port of registry: New York

- 1931-1945/46: Mrs. Anne Archbold & family Archbold from Washington, D.C. --- Vixen III. Home port: Bar Harbor, M. Port of registry: New York. (In 1942: US Navy Coast Guards)

- 1947: B.H. Spinney from New York --- Vixen III. Home port and port of registry: New York

- 1948-1952: Colonel Stephen S. Lang from Washington, D.C. --- Vixen III. Home port: Essex, Connecticut. Port of registry: New London, Connecticut

- 1953-1962: Herman E. Beaty from Pinellas Park, Florida --- Vixen III. Home port: Essex, Connecticut. Port of registry: New London, Connecticut

Vixen III was no longer registered in the Lloyd's Register of American Yachts from 1963.

- Beginning of the 1970s: Dr. George Schimert --- Vixen II. Home port: Florida (?)

- 2005: Nicolai Visser from Netherland --- Vixen II

Since 2005 Vixen II has sailed on charter under Nicolai Visser's ownership.

As to how Jessica's wooden hull was replaced with ferro-cement: That was done in 1978 by Berton Custom Craft of Tampa, Florida, who used the original hull as a male mold onto which a new hull - bigger and heavier and made of 1.5cm thick ferro-cement - was flowed which in turn was covered by a 4mm layer of epoxy resin.

Adam

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2009, 02:50:09 PM »
Now I don't mean to re-hash an old post but how does one feel about replacing a hull with a completely different material? Is she still Jessica/Vixen? Or is she a completely new boat and not a restoration?
 ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 02:53:23 PM by Adam »

Steve

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2009, 03:50:33 PM »
HH ... thanks for that information.

Adam .. that is an age-old question.  IMHO, she is the same boat, though signifcantly altered.  This is the same as arguing religion and politics at a bar.   ;D

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/doc/On_Restoration.pdf

Steve

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2009, 04:18:39 PM »
HH .. The owner' website, http://www.vixen2.nl, indicates that actor Warren Beatty owned the boat at one time.  Do you suppose he is referring to the ownership of  "Herman E. Beaty", 1953 - 1962?  WB was born "Henry W. Beaty" in 1937, which makes him only 16 years old at the time of the boat.  Do you suppose some of the details are errant or we have a coincidence here?

That same website mentions that the boat once bore the moniker SALLY ANN.  Given the completeness of the Taglang provenance you provided, I am assuming that was the name Beatty gave her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 04:22:52 PM by Steve »

Adam

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2010, 12:07:13 AM »
 ??? ok time to be stubborn - I seriously have a hard time calling this a restoration. It's one thing to replace all the planks of a wood boat - keeping the integrity of the original, but a whole other thing using the wood hull as a mold for cement, fiberglass, Kevlar, etc.....

Take the 12 1/2 built by CCSB. they used an actual HMCo. hull as the basis for the mold - does that mean the glass hulls are restorations? I think not. And while not exactly the same thing - take how the court viewed the fiberglass 12's vrs Wood in how they viewed CCSB as having "exclusive" rights to the 12 1/2.

Or how about when doing this, say they molded 10 Vixens - which is the original?

In the SCAPA thread Scott told of the famous Burgess R-Class "Cotton Blossum" - when she was cut up in the 1960's they used her as a mold to build a fiberglass R. Is she still Cotton Blossum?

More recently in another post we had a 12 1/2 built from scratch on an original HMCo lead keel - certainly the broker and the builder didn’t consider her a restoration - but I'd be more comfortable with that hull as a resto then Vixen.

Lastly the differences in hull dimentions, and weight distribution, structural strengths, etc. has to be quite different in this hull then with the original. How is that keeping with the integrity of the original?

Other then looking like the original hull Id say there is little else in common with the original.


 


Steve

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2010, 11:51:07 AM »
All true.  I told you it would be like arguing politics and religion.  ;D

HerreshoffHistory

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Re: New York 40s
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2010, 06:54:18 PM »
I do not know the source of the Warren Beatty ownership claims. Given the lack of substantiation, I kind of doubt it.

Jessica was renamed Sally Ann in 1920 under Spencer Borden's ownership, as stated above.