Marlin?

[Adam]

Wow! Great job! All the Marlins have been found. That is something! Go Registry, Go! And a big thanks to member UMills....as well as the folks at the Long Island Maritime Museum in Sayville, NY....

[Jon Brooks]

Thoughts on Marlins vs. Fish... I spoke with my Dad today regarding a Marlin sailing out of Islip, NY.  He was unaware of a Marlin, but did remember Fred Hard Jr. sailing a Fish down that way.  Fred Hard Jr. was the gentleman who donated the 12 1/2 to the Long Island Maritime Museum in Sayville.

There was a Marlin that sailed out of Port Washington.  This may be the boat for sale up in Huntington.  Mom and Dad sailed on here in the 1950's when she belonged to a co-worker of his at Pfizer. 

Dads opinion was that the Marlin sacrifices too much cockpit for too little cabin.  He'd go with a Fish, but still feels that the 12 is the ultimate vessel for sailing.

Jon   

[Steve]

Fred Hard owned quite a few HMCo vessels, including my Buzzards Bay 15, ELF.  He passed away a few years back at about 95 years old, after having a very full and generous life.

[umills]

I started sailing and racing over 50 years ago and during that time I have had the pleasure of sailing almost every thing that floats.The two boats that stand head and shoulders above the rest are the E 22 and my current boat a Fish reproduction.My boat Bluefin is so fast in winds of 10 kts or less I have had people stand up at skippers meetings and say"If he sails today we won't"! The moaning on the part of the kevlar set is almost embarrassing .I sailed a h 1 1/2 for two years at Shelter Island and although they are fine in a blow I will take a light air flyer any day.

[HerreshoffHistory]

May I revisit those Marlins?

On July 16, 2019 Steve wrote:
>I've been in touch with the Museum. It seems they have some credible
>evidence that their Marlin is 1421. That matches with the date
>evidence. I am now pretty sure the Museum has 1421 and SANIBEL is
>1422.

Did you find out what exactly the "credible evidence" is?

I am asking, because I am beginning to suspect that #1421s was built
in 1938 or even 1937, even though the Construction Record shows a
contract date of 5/9/1939. The Construction Record entries for the
nineteenth century usually showed as date the contract date. And boats
were usually built after a contract was made... However... The Marlins
were built during the Depression years. Three of them were given
consecutive building numbers but contract dates ranging from 1937 to
1938 to 1938. I suspect they were all built in 1937 (the Marlin
sailplan dates from January 21, 1937), one (#1420s) as a result of a
contract, the other two (#1421s and #1422s) on speculation. #1421s
would then have been sold on August 8, 1938 and #1422s on May 9, 1939.

Note that #1420s was sold for $1750 (without an engine) and #1422s was
sold for $1975 (with engine). #1421s, however, was sold for only
$1,200 (with engine!), but the Construction Record notes that she was
"Repaired". So what had happened? I can only suspect that she had been
sitting at HMCo, waiting for a buyer and got damaged in the great
hurricane of September 1938, her lower price reflecting the repaired
damage. #1422s, having been sold a month before the hurricane, was not
damaged and could be sold for the higher price.

What do you think?

[Adam]

Ok I'm confused (not surprising...) If 1421 was really built in 37, sold in August of 38 - why would the record reflect 39 - Even if she was damaged in Sept 38 and re-built?

Are you saying that 1422 was sold in Aug, and 1421 sold after - why? If (I assume) 1421 was really built first or at the same time wouldn't she have been the one sold with 1422 damaged in Sept? if not then why did the buyer prefer 1422 over 1421?

[Steve]

Interesting speculation.  My "credible evidence" is copies I have of some documents in the HMM files regarding their Marlin.  Among them is a letter from the donor referring to the boat as 1421.

[HerreshoffHistory]

Adam wrote:
>Ok I'm confused (not surprising...)

Oops, my mistake! Instead of:

>#1421s would then have been sold on August 8, 1938 and #1422s on
>May 9, 1939.

I should have written:

#1422s would then have been sold on August 8, 1938 and #1421s on
May 9, 1939.

[HerreshoffHistory]

Steve wrote:
>some documents in the HMM files regarding their Marlin.  Among them is
>a letter from the donor referring to the boat as 1421.

Hm, may well be. But we should note then that that is the _only_
reason why it is believed that HMM owns 1421. There appear to be no
other hints. Or not?

[Steve]

None that I know of.  But given that it is at best a 50-50 chance, and the circumstantial evidence,  I am comfortable in taking the bet.

[Adam]

Well both theory's are plausable....but there is no way to know unless someone finds a hull plate.

Someone needs to save that hull...hmmmmmm....

[HerreshoffHistory]

A few years have passed and I would like to revisit this thread yet
again because additional information has surfaced in the meantime.

Let's have a look at #1422s, the Marlin Cruiser built by Herreshoff in
1938 for Frank Gulden, Jr.

The 1940 Lloyds Register lists Frank Gulden as the owner of a 21ft
LOA, 16ft LWL, 7-0ft beam and 3-0ft draft boat that was built in 1938
by Herreshoff which can only be #1422s. It's name is Little Dipper.
Two years later she is listed as being owned by Stanley A. Carrington
of Islip, N.Y., now with an engine which was installed in 1942. The
1950 Lloyds still shows her as being owned by S. A. Carrington. By
1955 she is not listed anymore.

Now have a look at this thread in the Wooden Boat Forum:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142034

This interesting thread shows that #1422s was subsequently owned by
Frederick B. Hard, Dr. Ollie Moore, Greg Arthur, and the father of a
contributor to the thread who is identified only as Dandy. The son
still owns the boat and posted photos which clearly shows the name
Little Dipper on the transom. However, the thread also suggests that
she one carried a different name under during the F. B. Hard
ownership, possibly Nyanza.

The Herreshoff Registry for #1422s lists some of these owners
correctly, but beginning with 1972 seems to mix in another Marlin
called Tradewinds and later Sanibel. See

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/detail.php?hull=1422

If Tradewinds/Sanibel is not #1422s, which boat is it?

[Adam]

My first reaction was OK then she's 1421.... BUT.... I believe the boat in question was sailed in Islip on GSB(following the WB forum thread). I believe Jon mentioned (in another thread perhaps) that his dad sailed on that one (and was unimpressed - like the 12 1/2 better). Maybe Jon can shed some light - or ask his Dad if he remembers her. His dad was Commodore of the GSBYRU  - he might remember more.

Also why this statement - "The 1940 Lloyds Register lists Frank Gulden as the owner of a 21ft
LOA, 16ft LWL, 7-0ft beam and 3-0ft draft boat that was built in 1938
by Herreshoff which can only be #1422s". Why could she not be 1421?

And one last thing.... I always was under the impression that the Marlin only had one porthole per side - The pics on WB clearly show 2. They look original to me  - but we all know these things could be modified over time - still....Along this same line of thinking - I remember reading that in the 1950's at least one non Herreshoff wood hull Marlin was built.... Could this be a 5th - one that was a non-Herreshoff build? The fact that the poster mentions blueprints makes me wonder....

[Adam]

OK so I think I stand corrected on the two porthole thing..... With that said.... I've read and re-read the WB thread - and those pics (that clearly show the name Little Dipper).... OK Am I missing something in now showing 5 Marlin?

1) 1420  Matsya owned by the Cronin's - Fully restored and in Jamestown RI....
2) 1421?  Marlin - The one sold buy HMM a few years ago..... Being restored in Newport RI By John Hedley See: http://restoringmarlin.blogspot.com/
3) 1422?  Sanibel - The one we found in Islip NY owned by Godfrey Frable
4) 1507 Yare - She's up in ME - where I think she's been for a thousand years....

So now we have "Little Dipper" - Who the owner states:   "I covered her up and had her trucked to my home in Warwick (RI). There she has since, been sheltered under plastic and the inside stripped out.
Who is she??? Number 5? Or who is Sanibel??? too many Marlins....

To complicate things.... I found this no name Marlin for sale at Northeast Boat Brokerage: http://northeastboat.weebly.com/herreshoff-marlin-class.html
Since these guys are out of ME I’m going to take a leap here and assume this is YARE? (Yes I e-mailed them to ask….) Or is this #6? I think I’m running out of fingers….

[Adam]

Oh boy....could we have an imposter in our Marlins? How many of these are there out there? Is Sanibel original? Or is little dipper? Are we 100% positive on "Marlin"?

From Josh Howard:

Adam,
She sold late fall.  It wasn't one of the originals Marlins and I’m not sure who actually built her. It didn't have a name or hull number, but was the exact dimensions. If I had to guess I would say it was about 40-50 years old.
The seller had no proof, but insisted it was built by the Herreshoff manufacturing Co.  After inspecting her myself I would say that definitely wasn't the case.  I spoke with Maynard Bray about the boat a few years ago after he saw it at our shop and he agreed.

I can track down the current owner if you like.
Thanks Josh