Author Topic: What is this one?  (Read 16540 times)

Adam

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What is this one?
« on: October 25, 2008, 12:40:35 AM »
This guy has been trying to sell this for YEARS. Looks like one of those half raters maybe. Not convinced its a HMCo. boat or design....Guy's name is Charles Folz.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/6209

Steve

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2008, 11:51:47 AM »
If that's an HMC boat, it has gone through some renovations.  Given the specs, if it's an HMC boat, the only one it could possibly be is #729, SCAPA, an R-Class boat.  Maybe it's an LFH, but that transom doesn't have enough rake.

Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 02:16:50 PM »
My feeling is it's not but you never know - The guy claims that at some point the stern may have been modified (shortened). He has no documentation as to the age or even if it is a real Herreshoff - the 1914 and manufacturer was just what he was always told by his family. They have had the boat for some 50 (approx) years. It was glassed over about 30 years ago - and sounds like it's not in very good shape....If someone was nearby, they could go take a look at the construction and maybe determine...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 02:18:40 PM by Adam »

Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 08:12:16 PM »
You know the more I look at other R-Boats this certainly could be one. The dementions certainly fit - especially if you extend that stern - so does the rig assuming it was re-done from the original Gaff - to other R-Boats i'm seeing. SCAPA is a small R-boat under the rule - most of the ones I find on-line are closer to 40'. Anyone know anyone nearby Port Washington NY?

Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 03:59:43 PM »
Resurrecting this one (having too much fun being a PI  ;)  )....

I forwarded this info to Scott to see if he thinks this could possibly be SCAPA. Interesting that she is listed as R-19 and raced on the Great Lakes in his registry, while she is in Port Washington, LI today - hard to believe she would start out in the sound - head to the mid west - then go back to the sound, but with an active racing class that the R's had, maybe.....
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 04:14:04 PM by Adam »

Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 07:20:39 PM »
Well lookie here.... We may have found another. Scott is more diplomatic then I about the pictures but this boat may very well be SCAPA....:

"Hi Adam,

 No problem to bug me with r-boat questions.   I’ve been immersed in the class for the past ten years but don‘t have a lot of folks to discuss with. 

Yes, def, that Scapa is likely an R.  Seventy years of family ownership make pretty solid provenance. 

The first fleet of Rs on our coast was built in 1914 (see: my piece on Asahel Curtis, WB Sep./Oct, ’08) and of similar parameters to this little girl.  You just couldn’t push as big a boat with a gaff rig.  Her LWL was probably <22’. 

I don’t doubt that she’ been (inartistically) shortened but her aft quarter-beam measurement points are probably still on the hull.  The smaller photos w/ the listing were squashed but she seems right.  I’d sure like to see a profile shot.  What a cutie. 

I’m afraid I had to work on some business stuff last night but will get you a copy of the big list this weekend probably. 

Also, we have two HMC 12˝ knockabouts in our collection at the Center for Wooden Boats – www.cwb.org.  They really aren’t what we collect but I’ve bugged the Collections comm. to get them on the register.   They seem eager to do it.  I’ll follow up. 

Finally, is Puffin on the Register?   NGH des. built at HMC in ’26.  She’s alive and well at Cleveland YC (and beat like a drum by Pirate at Larchmont in ’29)."


SOOOOO..... Whada think Steve? Got another?   


Steve

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 01:09:54 PM »
This is great.  We are starting to cook now.  PUFFIN and the 2 CWB 12's are already listed, BTW.

I try not to register a boat without pretty solid evidence.  I think we are building a compelling case, but I am not sure if it is solid enough.  The objective is to present reliable information.  Waht do you think ... is this compelling enough?

As it turns out, I will be at the Herrshoff Museum for the day today.  My wife and I are transcribing the rest (hopefully) of the BYC yearbbook records.  I will ask about this boat.

Looks like this listing was last updated in March of 2007.  I wonder if she is still for sale?

I may be missing something, but I don't understand Scott's reference to 70 years of family ownership?

This is fun.


Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 04:11:05 PM »
Yeah Boat is still for sale - he even put up an E-Bay ad this week - Scott sent me the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250323599803&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123

I'm trying to convince Scott to buy her for their Museum - but he keeps making fun of how slow Herreshoff R-Class boats are - sacrilege I say, sacrilege - I had to take a Bath just thinking about it....I'm just kidding of course - He's an extremely nice fellow – at least about the bath part… ;D Scott is going to check the records on the two 12 1/2's - they may have more owner provenance for you....

I agree - not yet enough data.... I would love to have someone local take a look....

Jon, anyone still in NY that would know Herreshoff Construction?....She's in Port Washington - that’s like 45 minutes from Amity....

Heard from Halsey this week – first time in MANY years - If he’s around, send him my regards….



 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 04:20:12 PM by Adam »

Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2008, 05:15:01 PM »
Since I STILL can't post on WBF....maybe you can Steve. Seems this boat was noticed on E-Bay as well...

Maybe someone is local to LI and can take a look....

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88472

Never mind - Scot just fixed..... :)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 05:59:13 PM by Adam »

Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 05:30:39 PM »
Hey Steve - did you ever ask about Scapa at the HMM?

Steve

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 08:02:30 PM »
Nope ... I'm sorry to say.  The opportunity never came up, as everyone was busy.  The library was crowded and my wife and I were trying to be as unobtrusive as possible.  Halsey, John Palmieri, and Larry Fisher (the new executive director) were tied up with fund-raising and political activities.

We did complete most of the Beverly Yacht Club yearbook transcriptions, though ... there are only 9 more to go.  I am hoping we glean some new information once I can get it all into the database.

I don't know where to go on this one.  I am assuming the owner doesn't have any prior history, which would really be helpful at this point.

Adam

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Re: What is this one?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 09:07:24 PM »
Nope - no more helpful info - unless someone who truly knows construction is able to go physically and take a look, I'd say it's a dead end at this point  :-\

Not even the learned folks at WBF bit.... ;)