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Herreshoff Forum => Specific Herreshoff Vessels => Topic started by: Adam on January 16, 2009, 05:58:32 PM
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OK - Pat / Steve....
On Pat's site is listed a 1929 "Q Class" named QUESTA. I see no Q's named Questa - nor any built after 1925 (Falcon). Anyone know?
Adam
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I share your observation. FALCON was built by HMC but designed by Burgess, btw.
I am having difficulty navigating Pat's site. Is QUESTA claimed to be an HMC boat? Perhaps designed by LFH and built and Lawley's or elsewhere?
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Well I don't speak French very well - except in my car when commuting ::).... If I understand the section he has the Q's listed - it would appear he has it labeled as Nat's and built in Bristol RI...Pat was kind enough to give me a log-on for the site and I went through all the similar ones for the other class's and they were all in our registry.
Now another question about his site - he has all the categories for the universal rule (S,P,Q,etc.) - with numbers of boats listed under each - are these boats known to have raced in Europe? I ask because there are far more that I know of in a number of these categories then he has listed (the R-Class for instance that we spent so much time on a month or so ago).
Pat, can you shed some light.
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Yes I can ::)
About QUESTA sail number Q14, I translate what I wrote on my page:
Herreshoff design built in 1929 at Graves Shipyard, now sailing at Flathead Lake MT.
Nat or LFH I do not know.
Steve, I have a Frank C. PAYNE 1930 designed, LAWLEY built FALCON sail number Q16.
About sailing in Europe, I only saw COTTON BLOSSOM II Q5 sailing the Med.
I listed and I keep listing only the boats I meet reading my library, reading ClassicBoat and WoodenBoat magazines, searching the web and forums. Of course I guess there exist much more R-boats than I have listed if it is what you mean Adam
I just gave a logon to Steve, the best places to start a navigation are:
http://www.voilesclassiques.com/cache/plandusite.htm (http://www.voilesclassiques.com/cache/plandusite.htm) or
http://www.voilesclassiques.com/cache/introduction.htm (http://www.voilesclassiques.com/cache/introduction.htm)
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Thanks Pat - this helps clarify things. I'll forward you the R-Class registry I got from the R-Class folks a few months back.....
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Questa, Q-14 is an L. Francis Herreshoff design. LFH design # 33, built 1929 by Graves. As is Nor'easter, Q-12. LFH design # 26, built 1928 by Lawley. Both are sailing on Flathead Lake. See Wooden Boat #56 and #170 or Matthew Murphy's Glass Plates & Wooden Boats, p. 146.
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Maybe i'm confused - From Pat - "Steve, I have a Frank C. PAYNE 1930 designed, LAWLEY built FALCON sail number Q16"....
Were there two Q's named Falcon? Also wasn't LFH working for Burgess, Swasey, Paine by this time - wonder if he had a hand in her design?
Status: FOUND
Original Name: Falcon Current Name: Falcon
Hull Number: 962 Boat Location: Tenants Harbor, ME
Contracted By: Edward M. Cabot Current Owner: George Emery
Contract Date: 9/30/1925 Owner Since:
Class: Q Class Sub-Class:
Original Rig: Current Rig:
Original Price: $10,750.00 Restored By:
LOA: 46' Beam: 9'3"
LWL: 30'5" Draft: 6'5"
Designer: Burgess, Swasey, Paine
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"My" FALCON : Q16, 1930 F. C. PAYNE designed, ex HAYDAY, ex FALCON II, Lawley built. Restoration 2006-2007 at Castine.
I have a doubt between your 1925 and my 1930. Sail number Q16 looks more coherent with 1930 though.
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WoodenBoat #207 : page 58 Jonathan Rice's article is clear enough! (if right of course but I think it is)
Yes there were two Qs called FALCON, the first one is a W. S. Burgess 1925 design, the second is a Franck Paine 1930 design.
Yes the Burgess Paine firm was dissolved in 1926 but Burgess, Paine and LFH went on to design Qs in the following four years up to 1930.
Pat
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Hi Pat - yes good article - also lots about the "R" class (and even mentioned the "M" Istalena!) as well. Maybe the author was lurking here - seems it was a "high level" of the last three months posts here ;D
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I actually have not been lurking, merely stumbled upon the site, so I registered, of course. Yes, Two Falcons. It was an editorial decision by WB staff to refer to Paine's 1930 FALCONII as FALCON (sansII), which did leed to confusion that I hope I have since cleared up in WB 208.
I have been searching for any all information that relates to the Paine design offices; Burgess and Paine, Burgess, Swasey and Paine, Paine, Belknap and Skene, and Belknap and Paine. Following Qs is hard enough but if anybody has anything substative on Rs I'd be grateful.
I have been working on a book about yachting between the wars, Marblehead in particular, no end in sight as I do have to work for a living.
BTW Frank Paine was my great grandfather so I have more than a passing interest in getting this stuff right.
Jon
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Welcome to the forum, Jon. Hopefully someone can be of assistance.
-Steve
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Hi Jon - We did a bit iof research on the R "SCAPA" a while ago. The defacto "expert" on the R's I found was R-Class historian Scott Rohrer. He's out on the west coast, but has a pretty good database of the R's. I have his contact info if you'd like (PM me). The thread starts out as a conversation on the Newport 29's, but morphs from there - Here is the thread:
http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=17.0
And welcome to the forum....
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Thanks to all. And yes, defining "expert" can be challenging. The hardest, and first, thing that I had to wrap my mind around was that often contemporary sources are wrong. I'll check out the link.
Jon
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Hi Jon, just sent you an e-mail with Scotts contact info.
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I ran across this old forum discussion yesterday. If you are still investigating/tracking down old Q boats I may be able to offer some minimal assistance. As you may or may not know, a lot of the old Q boats ended up in Milwaukee in the 50's through the 80's. As a kid I raced or daysail on all of them listed below. The boats I remember were:
Falcon (Falcon II) Q16
Lively Lady (my understanding was this is Falcon I) Q7
Hope Q3
Cara Mia
Questa Q14
Robin Q11
These were great boats to sail and to watch sail. Let me know how I can help.
The South Shore Yacht Club in Milwaukee, WI has a complete half-model collection of all the Q boats.
Best,
John
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Thanks John. I'm sure the Q Boat fans out there may reach out.
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The Q-boats built by the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company were:
1907 #668s Dorothy Q. [Dorothy 2]
1907 #669s Eleanor
1909 #691s More Joy Sea Breeze, Carina, Old Girl, Flight, Tondeleyo (1950s)
1923 #892s Grayling Spindrift, Mary (1930s), Grayling
1925 #962s Falcon Lively Lady (1950s)
More Joy is today in the collection of the Herreshoff Museum in Bristol, RI, Grayling is in Seattle and Falcon in Maine.
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Grayling still active in Pacific Northwest. See November 2011 issue 48 North for three cites on the racing sheet. pp. 36,37, and 43.
http://content.yudu.com/A1ufx2/48NNov11/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.48north.com%2Farticles.htm
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Hello all,
I can assure you that Grayling is alive and well, as I am her current owner. For the record she was built in 1923 (not 29), and her LOA is 46'9" (not 43'... as listed in the registry). I race her through out the year out here in Puget Sound. You can follow her on Facebook at
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Q-Class-Grayling
Duke
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Hi Duke - Welcome - The HMCo. record states she is 45' 6"- but we've found discrepancies in the builders records before! Can you check that link – I couldn’t get it to work?
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Boats get rebuilt, additions are made, and there has been a changing standard in measuring LOA. For example the addition of a bow pulpit or stern pulpit, prod, or anchor roller changes the LOA measure although not the designed measurement. A previous measure of LOD (Length on deck) is sometimes used. Even the Certificate of Documentation issued by USCG varies from actual measurements--sometimes by quite a bit.
Don Wills (current owner of the Peterson 2 Tonner s/v Shoot the Moon) owned Grayling at one time, and she needed a bit of work when Duke acquired her if I remember correctly.
Perhaps Duke would be interested in detailing the ongoing exploits of Grayling in NW waters...
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Hi all
I just heard of Falcon has been saled, Falcon 1925 or 1930 I dont know but I can say her new name : "JOUR DE FÊTE".
Any detail?
Pat
Jour de fête is a Q Class designed by Franck Paine. (Falcon II then Hayday). Il a été construit par le chantier Lawley Yard dans le Massachussets. Bruno Troublé sailed her at the Voiles d’Antibes 2012 and at the Voiles du Vieux Port in Marseille 2012.
I am still looking for the name of her new owner.
Remember the link to my new site (you have to register before, I know Adam did)
http://www.classyachtclub.fr/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=370&category_id=72&Itemid=89
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Hi Pat - long time! Good info on Falcon - We'll keep our ears open...
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Seems Bruno Troublé is the new owner
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Interesting - the man behind the Louis Vuitton Cup....
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I hit upon this site googling FalconQ16.
I find reference to Questa on Flathead Lake and another Q boat
The other Q must be Lively Lady
All three raced on Lake Michigan out of South Shore Yacht Club, Milwaukee.
In addition, the Q's Robin, Hope, and Cara Mia also mored at South Shore.
Hornet, another Q, often came up from Chicago for the match races.
The time frame was in the 1950's and 1960's
The hallway stairs at South Shore is decorated with scale half hulls of the Q's sailing out of the Yacht Club at that time.
Lively as I recall was 48 feet and was the fastest overall of the Q's
I sailed for years on Falcon which was as I recall 52 feet
we had a masthead rig, Cara Mia was a ketch, i believe Lively maintained the original 3/4 rig.
Anyway I thought I'd put this out there since most of us are now with Davy Jones.
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When the Q Class boats left Marblehead a good portion of them ended up on Lake Michigan, either Milwaukee or Chicago. With some outside assistance I've begun to piece together the history of a number of these boats. There is now an effort, by others, to re-establish the class with new boats and hopefully restoration of the old boats. I'll try and update this forum with the info I've gathered on each boat in the hopes that some continuity can be established in the history of these boats. I've also been able to gather information on M-10 Istalena / Saber the M Class boat that was on the Great Lakes.
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I recently came across photographs from the 2012 Corinthian Classic of a Q class Falcon Q 7.
Can anyone provide some information on this boat?
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Detail - Hull 962
Status: FOUND
Original Name: Falcon Current Name: Falcon
Hull No: 962 Boat Location: Camden, ME
Contracted By: Edward M. Cabot Current Owner: Gerald Rainer
Contract Date: 9/30/1925 Owner Since: 2008
Class: Q Class Sub-Class:
Original Rig: Current Rig:
Original Price: $10,750 Restored By: John Anderson
LOA: 46 ft. 0 in. Beam: 9 ft. 3 in.
LWL: 30 ft. 5 in. Draft: 6 ft. 5 in.
Designer: Burgess, Swasey, Paine
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https://www.herreshoffregistry.org/details.php?hull=962 (https://www.herreshoffregistry.org/details.php?hull=962)