The Herreshoff Forum - Index
Herreshoff Forum => Herreshoff Sailing Vessel Classes => Topic started by: HerreshoffHistory on April 09, 2009, 05:42:26 PM
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I am looking for information and particularly historic photos of Buzzards Bay 18s. Five were built by the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company in the winter of 1903/1904: #612s Wizard, #613s Margaret, #614s Hindoo, #615s Jap, and #620s Wanderer. The first four were ordered by R. W. Emmons, the last was built on speculation and subsequently sold. Hart Nautical Collections has eight plans for them and the Herreshoff Marine Museum has its model (No. 710), labeled: "Buzzards Bay 18' Dec. 1903 612-13-14-15."
The Herreshoff Marine Museum Chronicle wrote about them in 1994: "They looked for all the world like an enlarged 15 footer but were 29 feet overall, 8 feet 1 inch beam, draft 3 feet without centerboard, outside fixed ballast 2,000 pounds, 470 square feet sail area."
Who can add more information?
Thanks!
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Well I can add a picture :)
(http://www.brayprints.com/wp-content/uploads/bb18_enlarge.gif)
I assume you have these but....
I also note that at last years Symposium :
“I Boats, The 18-Footers: Variation within the Rules,” by Philip Mallard was a description of the history, construction and rule variations of the 18-foot waterline boats that raced as a class from the late 19th to mid-20th centuries.
And Judith Westlund Rosbe's books "Maritime Marion" and "History of the Beverly YC" mentions them. She's the historian for the Beverly so I'd bet if anyone had photo's or records it would be her....
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I would add that if you select "Buzzards Bay 18" to search the registry, you will see that none of the 5 have been found.
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Thanks for the pointers to the Buzzards Bay 18!
Kathy Bray's image is the only one I am currently aware of.
Besides mentioning the 18s, does Judith Rosbe also describe them? Does anyone have a contact for Ms. Rosbe?
The Philip Mallard presentation or essay might be interesting. Do you have access to it?
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Ms. Rosbe is a resident of Marion, MA and the historian of the Beverly Yacht Club. I don't have a contact, but some creative googling may turn up something. I don't know of the Phillip Mallard you refer to.
-Steve
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Mallard's paper was at last years HMM SNARK Symposium... And no I found it mentioned on the SNARK site - but not the paper. I'd bet the HMM would have it.
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SNARK site ??
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I meant SNAME.....Told you I needed coffee....
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Again, I'm interested because these, too are the same design family as the 15. I have Judy Rosbe's book and
know her slightly. I know the BYC has other photos that probably haven't been seen by many people. I will
talk to her and see if she knows anything further about both the BB18 and the BB21
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Artisan Boatworks has the dimensions posted at http://www.artisanboatworks.com/classic-designs/sailboats/buzzards-bay-18
Also, Alec Brainerd of Artisan Boatworks believes none survived, he writes at OffCenterHarbor.com (http://www.offcenterharbor.com/2011/01/07/the-three-boats-i-lust-after-and-why-3/) the following:
The Buzzards Bay 18 is yet another design, of which no original example survives. Herreshoff designed the 18 in 1903, just a few years after the Buzzards Bay 15. She is 29’ on deck, 18’ on the waterline, displaces 4430 lbs, and has 472 square feet of sail. Like the Belfast Lough One Design, the Buzzards Bay 18 captures the spirit of the “big boats” in a captivating way. She would be a good intermediate boat between the Buzzards Bay 15 and larger Buzzards Bay 25, and I would be tempted to lower the ballast keel and eliminate the centerboard in the same way Herreshoff did with the Buzzards Bay 15 when designing Flicker.
The Buzzards Bay 18 is one of the smallest designs of this type having a cabin large enough for occasional overnight use, and adequate displacement for a diesel or electric auxiliary. She is similar in size and shape to Sparkman & Stephens Dark Harbor 20, but her increased beam adds considerably to the available interior and cockpit space.
To me, the Buzzards Bay 18 is one of the most beautiful of all the Herreshoff designs, and she intrigues me because here is an opportunity to reintroduce something that has been long forgotten. I’m not even aware of any photos of original Buzzards Bay 18’s. To build a new replica of Herreshoff’s Buzzards Bay 18 would be a truly noble endeavor, and create a boat with lasting value to both the classic yachting community, and to those who revere the Herreshoff legacy.
If you have not visited OffCenterHarbor.com its a treasure--this came from an early blog topic on "Boats I lust after". Lin and Larry Pardey just weighed in on their choices. --two popular NGH designs.
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Here are the first photos of Alec's new BB18. You may need to be logged into to Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.339002869516469.78880.291688557581234&type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.339002869516469.78880.291688557581234&type=1)
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First she's gorgeous.... second - Question - I would expect her rig is similar to the BB25 - and when I look at Kathy Bray's drawings for both I see a Sliding or adjustable side stay for both. When I look at Alec's photo's I don’t see that (but I do see them on the BB25). Am I missing it?
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I guess your are referring to the running backstays? I know my BB15 had 'em, and I am pretty sure the BB25s did as well. I have neve seen a BB18 before, but I would guess that the originals, with the long overhang of the boom, probably had them as well. Alec may have had the rig re-designed a little for ease of handling. I'll ask him when I get the chance.
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Look at picture #7, the shrouds are at least a foot aft of the mast and in the Bray painting. Stainless shrouds and spreaders are evident, my guess is the shroud attachment point has been moved aft enough to support the rig without the runners.
Of course the Bray painting might have had the shrouds placed differently than the plans.
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From Alec:
Hi Steve,
Carbon mast, faux painted. Same diameter and taper as original. 3 times the strength! So, the rig is exactly as designed in every respect, just no need for runners.
Alec E. Brainerd
Artisan Boatworks
Rockport, Maine
207.236.4231
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Alec didn't mention whether or not he increased the draft as suggested in his post and had been done for Flicker? This is a beautiful boat, right for so many uses. It would be nice to see more about it.
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No ... but I would expect that he will have a more thorough treatment in one of his upcoming newsletters.
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OK that is cool - amazing the strength of carbon fiber. Even with the side stays back a foot as Charles noted I still couldn't see that rig staying put with that sail area.... In a blow that thing must be a rocket.
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Alison Langley slide show of Artisan Boatworks' BB 18: http://vimeo.com
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The new BB 18 is moored near here:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/35ajgg6.jpg)
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Just an update to the Video link:
http://vimeo.com/47196215
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Notice at the beginning it says for "Presentation to the Camden Yacht Club".
Other than the NYYC every generation so collaborating with a designer/builder to create a new class such as the Swan NY42 or the Peterson designed NA40's, have you heard of any other clubs recently making the pitch for several one designs tailored to their members desire in the recent past?
This BB18 has been on Artisan Boatworks for some time as a model they wished to build. Now that it is done, and she's a beauty, carbon rig included, the asking price is $250,000 (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2461942&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=herreshoff&&ywo=herreshoff&. ). The originals were $1,333 at the end of 1903.
One of the secrets of success of HMCo was the multiple classes of one designs and the cost savings created by making a series. The 1903 NY 30's are an obvious example 18 of them, fully equipped, $4,000. The 1902 Bar harbor 31's $4,960, one of kind Bambino 30' waterline $5,500. Other examples show the cost savings of the multiple boat orders.
We often focus on the beauty of the designs of HMCo, but there was also magic in the marketing of JB, and the sales of several models to multiple yacht clubs over time with some modifications such as done to the BB12 1/2 and the BB15's.
I hope Artisan can duplicate this with their presentation to Camden YC.
Comments?
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Good point - Not sure if HMCo. "Invented" this sort of small one design type of design/building - but it was very commonplace for designers to do this in the first half of the 20th century. One design classes turned over so fast – what was in today was out tomorrow. Certainly HMCo. by being both designer and builder had an advantage. Seems less-so today of course as costs would be rather prohibitive. Todays clubs can put together a one design fleet just by buying plastic off the shelf - no need for a designer to design something special for your club - and builders do have volume discounts. From Opti's to Doughdish to J-24's, most of today's clubs are all about national/international one designs fleets.
Personally I'd rather less one designs and more designs to specific (or not) rules - IE Handicap. I think it allows Designers to be more, say, artistic and creative. But less money in something like that I guess.
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As one-designs come and go, but there is a timelessness to the wood vessel that is cherished. Preaching to the choir here. In my job I see many boats go to the trash heap or crusher, as I think about it, there is a certain combination of design & build quality and family or owner use that causes some vessels to be passed down the generations and maintained throughout rather than be rebuilt. In some cases, like the BB15 and BB18 discussed here--one hundred years after their original production an artisan, master boat builder, recreates the boat from the original plans. Do you really think someone will do that with a J/24?
The J/24's are the most popular keel boat ever--5300 plus built, new ones still being built in 4 countries with a vast worldwide middle class to buy them--different economic conditions than in HMCo's time.
Last year at US Sailing's symposium in Chicago they posited that sailing congregates around the Club's. And while Adam rightly asserts that any club can and do go and purchase the plastic (FRG) from the manufacturer (my club joined with our neighbor across the canal to buy 12 El Toro's recently at $4500 a piece) one wonders when the clubs will choose timeless designs and quality that will persist over that which is cheap. That gets to the heart of my question, are you familiar with any clubs choosing quality, timeless designs?
The BB 18 looks like one in need of a few sponsors.
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Well there are a number of clubs that do "timeless designs" - at least in a limited fashion - there are many clubs with fleets of Beetle cats, at least 5 clubs with12 1/2/Doughdish fleets, Wianno has its seniors, my own club has its Narrasketucks....so it does happen. I'd say most of the examples are clubs that have a steeped tradition in a classic class - thus keeping it going. I think it would be a lot more difficult to convince a typical club to pick up classic design - but not impossible. We live in a disposable society, get sick of that cheap j/24 or El Toro, on to the next hot plastic fantastic. :(
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Wow , she handles with such ease. it appeared as it floated on a cloud
Robert