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Herreshoff Forum => Specific Herreshoff Vessels => Topic started by: Adam Langerman on September 22, 2009, 07:41:24 PM
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COQUINA, whatever hull number she may be, officially made the firsts step towards sailing again, with any luck, by next season. The list is long; the major items being ballast keel removal / repair, deck re-canvas, seam splining, replacing deteriorated floors, and everything else that comes up. Anyway, getting her into the shop was the first step.
(http://herreshoffdesigns.com/COQUINA/COQUINA_090045.jpg)
(http://herreshoffdesigns.com/COQUINA/COQUINA_0909065.jpg)
I'm off to France tomorrow for some schooner racing. Work begins on COQUINA when we return on the 5th.
Adam
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Adam: Is she not #965? The Herreshoff Museum website indicates that is her hull number.
http://herreshoff.org/hmm/herreshoff_boat_collection.html (http://herreshoff.org/hmm/herreshoff_boat_collection.html)
Enjoy Europe!
-Steve
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Yes, 965 would seem to be it, but I guess there is some controversy. It's a subject I will certainly research over the course of the project. Thanks! If I have internet I will certainly try to post some pictures! Adam
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The controversy is Here:
http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=114.0 (http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=114.0)
As both "SILHOUETTE" and "COQUINA" claim the 965 number.
I must say you folks at HMM are really restoring at a pretty heavy pace!
Oh and Adam please take some pics of that schooner racing please...!! :)
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The controversy is Here:
http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=114.0 (http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=114.0)
As both "SILHOUETTE" and "COQUINA" claim the 965 number.
I must say you folks at HMM are really restoring at a pretty heavy pace!
Oh and Adam please take some pics of that schooner racing please...!! :)
Indeed, that is the controversy.
COQUINA's overhaul will be sponsored and undertaken by myself, Halsey Herreshoff and Herreshoff Designs, Inc.
Below is COQUINA (right) on the rocks in Marblehead following the hurricane of 1960. L. Francis is in the foreground, he is about to console HH by telling him not to worry, NGH designed many fine craft, but the S-boat was not one of them. HH and his father restored COQUINA at their home shop.
(http://herreshoffdesigns.com/COQUINA/S00965_Coquina_ex_Avocet.jpg)
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As regards SILHOUETTE claiming 965, I corresponded with her owner on the topic. He arrived at the number through a process of deduction, which we all know is not always reliable. When I suggested that the Museum had #965, he softened on the claim. Of course, I had assumed that the Museum had solid evidence that COQUINA is 965 (like the plate, or at least some solid documented provenance). It sounds like that is not the case? Can you tell us the basis for the Museum's claim to 965?
Anyway, have a great time in France. And yes .... pics are greatly appreciated !
-Steve
PS ... that pic of Marblehead in 1960 is great
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Adam Langerman writes:
>L. Francis is in the foreground, he is about to console HH by telling
>him not to worry, NGH designed many fine craft, but the S-boat was not
>one of them.
Big smile. That's pretty good.
How come you know he said that? Did Halsey tell you?
:-)
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As regards SILHOUETTE claiming 965, I corresponded with her owner on the topic. He arrived at the number through a process of deduction, which we all know is not always reliable. When I suggested that the Museum had #965, he softened on the claim. Of course, I had assumed that the Museum had solid evidence that COQUINA is 965 (like the plate, or at least some solid documented provenance). It sounds like that is not the case? Can you tell us the basis for the Museum's claim to 965?
Anyway, have a great time in France. And yes .... pics are greatly appreciated !
-Steve
PS ... that pic of Marblehead in 1960 is great
As I said, this will be a topic of research as we get into this project.
Adam Langerman writes:
>L. Francis is in the foreground, he is about to console HH by telling
>him not to worry, NGH designed many fine craft, but the S-boat was not
>one of them.
Big smile. That's pretty good.
How come you know he said that? Did Halsey tell you?
:-)
Yes, yesterday.
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Toe rails off, most of deck stripped, keel bolts out, ballast removed - making progress...
Next move is cabin / coaming off and start floor repairs.
You can see why the ballast needs to be repaired below.
(http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs270.snc1/9719_1224135236067_1009563903_1783194_5439530_n.jpg)
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs250.snc1/9719_1224135156065_1009563903_1783192_3682845_n.jpg)
(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs250.snc1/9719_1224135196066_1009563903_1783193_3718384_n.jpg)
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Yup ... it looks like that ballast keel was ready to take itself off. Please keep us in the loop.
Thanks.
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How does one fix that - I assume lead - keel? Melt and re-cast? Start from new lead? heat and melt the area's where there are stress cracks?
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Luckily that is not up to me to figure out. Mr. Broomfield in Providence will hopefully have a solution for us. I expect the bad area can be cut away and new lead poured in place. At least that's what I hope. Otherwise we will be the proud new owners of an S-boat lead plug and mold.....
All the fasteners are out of the cabin side and coaming. It should be on the ground tomorrow.
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Curious - as a PM myself - do you SWAG the work, tasks, durration, est. costs, etc. and stick to a tight project plan (much like building a new boat i'd expect) - or is it more freeform like with a home construction project - have high level estimate, know your budget, and try to stay away from fancy accessories that put you over budget?
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Adam: Every project is different. In this case, the tasks have been outline and prioritized based on a detailed survey. From the task list we have estimated materials necessary, but not time. I will be keeping track of the budget for future reference.
Today's update: For those who insist on standing headroom, I give you an S-boat with standing headroom.
Deck hardware is mostly removed now and so finally we can start making positive progress!
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs279.snc1/10623_1225301305218_1009563903_1785899_3983457_n.jpg)
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs279.snc1/10623_1225301385220_1009563903_1785901_5562681_n.jpg)
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The lead is very bad. Following our consultation we have to make the tough decision of starting from scratch or doing a patch repair.
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs240.snc1/8721_1229954621548_1009563903_1798364_6988499_n.jpg)
Cabin top is in good shape. Repairs and recovering are moving along nicely.
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs240.snc1/8721_1229954661549_1009563903_1798365_7849613_n.jpg)
Planking is also looking good.
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs220.snc1/8721_1229954541546_1009563903_1798362_1445691_n.jpg)
Sunset from the shop after a week of miserable weather.
(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs240.snc1/8721_1229954701550_1009563903_1798366_1990689_n.jpg)
Onward.
Adam
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These photo-journals are great. Keep 'em coming.
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Adam - I'm curious on the lead keel - are the stress cracks from lateral movement, or is the lead an alloy (IE it has impurities in it) that overtime weaken and fail? I've noticed old lead seems to sometimes get chalky and brittle almost like hull anodes zincs and galvanic corrosion.
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In this case, there seems to have been a large amount of impurities that has caused corrosion and subsequent movement of the material. It could also be described as cancer.... Adam
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Yep - well that would do it for me....Start from scratch, forget the repair...(it's nice spending someone elses money and time...)
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If only life were so easy... This is still a decision not made lightly. First, there is another option or two to explore.
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Adam: I have been reading about alternative ballast placements in the S-Boats. Apparently, HMCo had multiple configurations. Do you know anything about this?
-Steve
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I would worry micro cracks are present and that patching would just hide unseen damage further down - and possible failure elsewhere. Never heard of anyone magnafluxing a lead keel before - not sure it's even possible with Lead seeing it is non magnetic - although I know they use penetrating dye's with softer metals like aluminum and copper, so maybe there is a process for lead? But seeing is Lead is easily melted and re-molded I'd still vote for a re-make. (See there I go spending others time and money again - as well as giving advice not asked for - to people who probably know a whole lot more then I do...ain't the internet grand ;) )
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I too am curious about the ballast differences in the various S boats. I had read that about 50 pounds of ballast was added after the first year. I had also heard that the ballast was shifted on boats after a certain hull number. I would be interested to hear the details of this (which hull numbers were affected) as well as any impact on performance. I love the site, the forum, and the progress photos on Coquina.
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Welcome to the Forum. I was just reading a full treatment of the topic in the 1994 Ken Upham S-Boat Register. Do you have access to it?
-Steve
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Thanks, it's nice to be here! I don't have access to that publication but have heard of it and I understand a revised edition is in the works. Can I purchase a copy somewhere?
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I am pretty sure a new edition is in the works. I have shared some information with the folks who are working on it, as have some of my contacts, though I haven't heard anything in awhile. I don't believe the current version is available for purchase, though the Herreshoff Marine Museum library has a copy.
Do you own an S-Boat? If so, which one?
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From Jones:
"At the end of the first season Nat added 50lbs of Ballast to the forward lower edge of the Keel beginning with design number 852, the 17th in the series."
also presumably designed to the Universal rule "s" other designers also designed them - and made changes (see Herreshoff #931 by Alden). Additionally it is unclear to me if the Lawley built boats were by contract to HMCo thus using Nats design - or had made some changes?
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Jones ?
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http://www.amazon.com/Herreshoff-Sailboats-Greg-Jones/dp/0760311609
;)
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Ohhhh ??? I even have an autographed one of those
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Possibly a senior moment Steve?
:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
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me ? ;)
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Adam L - Can we go back to the hull number topic again? I understand that Halsey has a document from prior owner Briggs Cunningham that indicates COQUINA is number 965. That would make her a member of the 956-class. When Ken Upham was preparing the 1994 S-Boat Register, he was told by someone, possibly Halsey, that she is a member of the 996-class. If the latter is true, she is probably 1014. By any chance, do you know of any differences between the 956 class and the 996 class? If so, you may be able to make a determination as your project progresses.
-Steve
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We have a new lead regarding the builders plate. I will post if it pans out.
Don't know the differences off the top of my head. Where did you hear this? I have copies of the correspondence between HH and Briggs, but don't see any reference to hull #.
I've been compiling some interesting S-boat documents (I'm sure nothing new, but interesting to me none the less) and will be scanning and posting soon.
Adam L
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In my random S class searching: http://www.uship.com/shipment/Herreshoff-S-Boat/919419810/ (http://www.uship.com/shipment/Herreshoff-S-Boat/919419810/)
Anyone know anything regarding?
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The information I got regarding Coquina came from prior correspondence with Jim Phyffe. Jim is working with Ken Upham on a new edition of the 1994 S-Boat Register. Apparently, there was a conversation on the topic between Halsey and Ken when the 1994 edition was being developed.
The boat on the U-Ship site is Red Jacket. It is currently in Sorrento, Maine and was donated to The Wooden Boat Rescue Foundation. The new owner got her from there, and will be restoring her at this home in Naragansett. Apparently, she is one of the few water-tight cockpit versions (though it is not called out as such in the builder's record).
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Hi,
I am the new owner of Red Jacket. She is now in Narragansett. She is hull number 835. Any more information on the keel repair?
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Hi Paul - Welcome - I want to see some pics of your resto as well!
I too am curious if a decision was made on the Keel - Adam L. - Any news?
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The two realistic options are:
1) Start from scratch.
2) Dig out the apparent poor material and fill with either filler, molten lead, or an epoxy and lead shot slurry.
The correct option is obviously start from scratch.
For our project I think we will end up patching the keel and see how long before more material starts moving. In other words, start budgeting for a new keel now and hope we get two or three years until we have to bite the bullet
We will be using new hanger bolts machined for our purpose that will be threaded deeper into the ballast than original.
We've been securing oak for the new floors this week.
Paul, congrats on the new boat and welcome to the forum.
Adam L.
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Adam - what would be the advantage to a "filler/slurry" - vs molten lead? I have never heard of using an epoxy in this way before...
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Thank you everybody for the welcome.
Thought I'd add some photo's of the new boat:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45706290@N07/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45706290@N07/)
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Picked up the white oak for COQUINA's new floors and frames today! We will be making sawdust soon!
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs192.snc3/19934_1289481189675_1009563903_1973585_4474055_n.jpg)
And not related, but we also stopped by Taylor and Snediker Woodworking to check out our latest Classic Tender, which will be shipped in a climate controlled container to New Zealand at the end of the month. This boat is gorgeous!
(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs192.snc3/19934_1289481149674_1009563903_1973584_769879_n.jpg)
Adam L
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It sure does look gorgeous! Thanks for sharing.
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Are those 12's, Havens also in the pic?
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Good eye...
12 1/2 (from Nantucket) to the left and a 14 (non-HMC) to the right.
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I'll say a good eye!
Adam L ... what do you know about the 12 from Nantucket? It doesn't seem to be on the list.
-Steve
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I know I've seen a number of wood 12 1/2's over there - whether they are local, summer folk, new builds or originals I can't say....
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Are those 12's, Havens also in the pic?
No plate, no # for the Nantucket 12 1/2.
But here's another tender pic from the float test...
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs192.snc3/19934_1294849883889_1009563903_1987533_4197533_n.jpg)
(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs192.snc3/19934_1294849843888_1009563903_1987532_1213832_n.jpg)
Adam Langerman
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Is that Dave Snediker in the boat? Is this the same model they exhibited in the hall at the Symposium 2 years ago ?
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Yes, that's Dave.
No, this one (T/T Adele) is 15' 6" and we designed a gaff rig for it.
Lines are based on the un-modified Columbia life-boat model, #499.
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Confirmed COQUINA is #965 today. The plate was located. Adam
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oh very good! how is she comming BTW?
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Thanks for the update. Will she swim in the Spring?