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Herreshoff Forum => Miscellaneous Herreshoff Topics => Topic started by: Adam on August 28, 2008, 04:11:09 PM
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OK - I know NGH, in the 20's when he was semi-retired and wintering in Bermuda, allowed a builder(s) to build some 12 1/2's there. Additionally in the mid 40's, The Haffenreffer's allowed a yard (Lawley's think) under license to build some as well - just before they closed shop and sold the rights to CCSB. Does anyone know how many of these boats where built? Do they get HMCo. hull #'s? Are any in existence? Also, CCSB, before they switched to fiberglass (1955 maybe) built wood ones as well - anyone know how many? what are the differences with these boats - IE can you tell them apart? ( an interesting quandary for future "owners"/ "collectors" - How can you tell the difference between the real thing and a "copy" - going to be hard in 50+ years - carbon dating anyone? ;D )
Also.... Are there others from these years - or close copies? Licensed or unlicensed - For example in Scituate Harbor is a very nice - what appears to be a BB14 - my guess from the 40's early 50's (This is my Guess as its got an old Grey or Palmer inboard which I date from that era - but I'm no expert). It always stops me as it screams Herreshoff, but it's built in Lapstreak - and of course its got an inboard.... (No builders plate, but I've heard of several of these built by a number of Fairhaven, New Bedford, Fall River Builders like Palmer Scott).
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Adam: If you chedk out the H12 Registry document, there is quite a bit of detail on this topic. I also hope to post a document shortly on identifying your 12 which will go into this topic as well. Essentially, HMC licensed the Quincy Adams Shipyard to build the 12 in 1943. Between then and 1948, QA built 51 boats. They used the HMC builders plate with hull numbers 2000 - 2050. They were trimmed and planked in mahogany and had the Fisher's Island configuration minus the copper flotation tanks. From 1948 until the early 50's, Cape Cod Shipbuilding built about 34 boats. They were trimmed in mahogany and planked in cedar, as were the HMC boats. However, HMC used butt-blocks when planking and CCSB used full-length planks.
-Steve
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Thanks Steve - I must have missed that - i'll look closer next time.
They published the race results on gthe HMM site - they list the 12's that raced...
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I really wish I could've been there at the New York boat show in 1950. My Dad had been drooling over the CCSB 12's each year since the war and actually had some money to spend. He got to the show only to find a Cape Cod Bulls Eye. I think it was one of his life's great disappointments. (He bought one anyway, #55 I think.)
I see there's a picture of a Fishers Island 12 on the photo page. I don't think I've ever passed a boat faster than when we sailed past a Fishers Island 12 in Minx during the '81 Rendezvous! At least not until last week when we sailed to leeward of a McGregor 26 (aka: DeathTrap26 :o ).
Jon 8)
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Adam: I just found out today from Weatherly Dorris that not ALL HMC 12's used butt blocks, just most of them. So the absence of a butt block doesn't definitively rule out HMC.
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Steve - The other item I'd be concerned with is re-builds. As these boats get older, and skills of re-fitters change, materials are different, etc., repairs and restorations may not be - say "acurate" over time. making it harder to identify an original.
Also, at some point one asks is it really "original". Some of the larger boats that have been "restored" lately have had so much of the "original" wood replaced, I question what the definition of "new" vs. "restored" is?
Jon - Sailing skill is an issue as well - I'd have been concerned if you haden't sailed past that Mac26 to Leeward in an El Toro.... ;D