The Herreshoff Forum - Index
Herreshoff Forum => Whatever => Topic started by: Jon Brooks on January 09, 2011, 11:04:41 PM
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I really enjoyed the mini-feature in this month's Wooden Boat regarding the rebuilding of H-121/2 "Malabar" by the Ballentine Boat Shop. She is anchored right off the Cohasset Yacht Club, and is just lovely.
What I didn't know until today when I signed up to join the H-Class Association was this:
Press Release: 10/26/10
Doughdish and Stuart Knockabout
We are happy to announce the formation of Doughdish LLC and Stuart Knockabout LLC and the purchase of the molds and the rights for building these two popular and timeless Herreshoff designs in fiberglass. Both of these reproductions were created by Bill Harding, of Marion and Cataumet Massachusetts, who successfully marketed and oversaw the building of some 540 Doughdishes (since 1973) and 76 Stuart Knockabouts (since 1985). The hulls for these boats were built at Edey & Duff of Mattapoisett. Regrettably Edey & Duff has recently closed their doors, ending an era of successful and noteworthy boat building. It is the intention of Doughdish LLC and Stuart Knockabout LLC to continue the production of these fine boats, as well as to provide replacement parts, repairs, and brokerage services.
Doughdish LLC and Stuart Knockabout LLC will be working in conjunction with, and will be located at, Ballentine’s Boat Shop (BBS) in Cataumet, Massachusetts. BBS has been actively involved with these boats since their inception, and presently maintain some 45 Doughdishes and a dozen Stuart Knockabouts. BBS has also worked on over a hundred wooden Herreshoff 12 1/2s, completely rebuilding several, and will soon be restoring BEAN MO CHROI, which is the only boat originally built to this 1932 L. Francis Herreshoff design, and was the inspiration for the Stuart Knockabout.
With our long history of involvement with both boats and the retirement of Bill Harding, we thought it an appropriate next stage. We are pleased to have the opportunity to continue in Bill’s stead and look forward to perpetuating these amazing boats and providing support for the established fleets.
Amy Ballentine Stevens
Steve Ballentine
Managing partners
Doughdish LLC
Stuart Knockabout LLC
PO Box 457
Cataumet, MA 02534
508-563-2800
For those of us with aging Doughdish boats (our "new" boat turns 30 this year!) this is good news! These people know 12's as well as anybody, and can do justice to the wood as well as the glass parts. Steve and Amy will be hearing from me!
Jon 8)
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Yeah, kind of sad about E&D - anyone know what happened? I was ther late summer - seemed busy.
Marshall took the Sakonnet 23 and is now building them.
The old Stone horse was one of my favorites - and just last year E&D was talking about putting them back into production. Wonder where those molds will go?
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Here ya go....
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100905/NEWS/9050354/-1/NEWSMAP
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Yup, the end of an era. I spoke to Mait Edey a few years ago when I was researching the history of my BB15. He once owned her, and modified her rig. I'm sure the Ballentine's will do a fine job.
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This is a good read - Letter by Edey going over the history of E&D as well as some of the models Duff carved - some of this was used in the history of Marshall Cat's for Graysons Book "Cape Cod Catboats".
http://home.comcast.net/~kgmurphy/sws/01-11/1.html
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Steve & Amy will be at the Maine Boatbuilders Show. I look forward to chatting with them.
Jon 8)
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Here is the new Doughdish web site....of interest is that the Registry made their "Active Fleets" list....:-)
http://www.doughdishllc.com/index.html
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Yes ... Amy and I correspond and help each other out quasi-frequently.
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Did not know - They do some beautuiful work!
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Be sure to check out Hull #745:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=246371&id=401198024195&l=d09695c4cd
Jon 8)
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We should discuss this....Ballentine Boat Shop states that they consider Elf the first production 12 1/2 and Robin the prototype due to the fact that Robin has a slightly different length. I went back to the record and while the LOD is the same the LWL for Robin is one inch off (12' 5" vrs. 12' 6"). What was the difference - I assume balast? I also gather Robin and Elf had different rudders then all the others....
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Interesting... nice restore too!
Jon 8)
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I'm not sure I agree that ROBIN should be considered a prototype. She raced at BYC and was sailing into the 1960's until we lost track of her. There are several sources that refer to her as the first. My guess is that the information written in the record is of variable accuracy, as has been proven the case on multiple occasions, so the exact LWL as recorded in the record might not be reliable.
The rudders, and a number of other characteristics, were different on the first 20, of which both ELF and ROBIN were members.
My question is: How does Ballentine know that ROBIN is different? From the builder's record or from first hand knowledge? Interesting that the last known location for ROBIN is Cataumet.
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Wow! That IS interesting!
Jon 8)
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I agree - Very interesting. Steve, you have more experience then I with the record, but one thing that supports a slightly different LWL is the 12'6" is written in the record first- then purposely crossed out - as well as she was sequential to Elf and the others - with Elf clearly written as 12' 6" just two weeks later. Wouldn't surprise me if Robin had ballast added/changed later on (we saw this with the S-class for example).
Next time you speak with Amy, let us know...
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I wonder what folks will think of our "record keeping" someday. Ever look up a boat for sale on-line? You've got "Bullseye", H-12, H-12 1/2, 12 1/2, Doughdish, Foxeye, "12", and now... H12.5!
Jon 8)
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Adam: Nice catch, but I am still not convinced. If you look at the record, both LWL and Beam are crossed out. But I don't think the "old" LWL" was written as 12-6, but looks more like 3-11. The 3 is sort of undecipherable, and maybe could be an 8? But you can see a 1 right after the foot mark. But to me, it soesn't look like a 12-6. Also, I think the "old beam" was written as 3-3. This would suggest that the figures were originally entered erroneously for some other boat, and the shop clerk corrected it.
Look at the attached image ... I added a little contrast and removed the horizontal correction marks with Photoshop. Whaddya think?
(http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/images/Record_Robin.jpg)
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Steve - I'd have to agree with you.... Ask Amy, I'd like to understand her reasoning - maybe they know something we don't?
Jon - you forgot the "real" 12 class name....
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Oh yeah! "Buzzard's Bay Boy's Boat"!
Jon 8)
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Amy says that ROBIN is 15' 6" LOA and 12' 3" LWL. She doesn't recall where she heard it from, though she confirmed it in the builder's record as reproduced in the MIT record. To me, the record is unclear and this still remains something of a mystery.
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Where does the "lost in florida" come from? I see it repeated by others as well...
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You see it stated by others as well? Do you mind telling a little more ... like who, and where?
I heard it from a gentleman named Mike Pesare. Mike used to work at the museum. He owned a 12 and did a significant amount of research while he was there. He long ago found different interests, but shared his research notes with me, including the notation that Robin's whereabouts are unknown, with a rumor that she was lost in Florida.
In my recent correspondence with Amy, she said that she did not know of ROBIN's whereabouts (or fate), but has heard rumors that she sunk in an unknown (to her) location.
The last known owner was a gentleman from Marion named Newell Eames. He sold the boat in 1965 to someone from Cataumet (information I obtained from a phone conversation with Newell's son). Interesting that Newell had a home in Florida. I had wondered if he may have been the one to lose her in Florida, but his son assured me that was not the case. Eames had renamed her LITTLE DIPPER. The son was going to go through some old boxes of files looking for photos he knew were there. Nothing ever came of that, though.
I asked Amy if she knows of ROBIN and/or LITTLE DIPPER (using the Cataumet connection), but she does not. I suggested that maybe an old-timer in the yard might remember ... she is going to ask around.
I am intrigued by the possibility that ROBIN was different from the others of the first 20. I am not convinced of this, but it is worthy of some research. Hopefully, someone at the Museum may know more.
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Saw it on-line recently. Said exactly what we know here - rumored to have been lost in Florida....
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Note that the titles for 12 1/2 footer plans at M.I.T. refer to the "744 class", not to the "745 class" or whatever.
If Robin were a prototype, it would be somewhat difficult to consider her part of the class and let the numbering begin with her hull number.
Having said that, it is quite likely that a few small changes were made before they went into mass production.
It may be best to go to M.I.T. and look for handwritten notes on the various plans as changes were usually recorded directly on the plan. You'd probably have to go there in person because of the restrictions specific to the 12 1/2 footers.
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I'm game - anyone know if they are open weekends...?
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No they are not, I had to take time off from work to go when I went.
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Hey Erick - whats the latest on your 12?
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I have temporarily suspended construction on the 12 to build a pair of Ian Oughtred Wee Rob lapstrake canoes for the wife and myself for use this summer. She always complains that while sailing we don't get any exercise. I keep telling her that she needs to learn how to relax, but I finally give in to her after I started to see my pastry cemetery start to hang over my belt. I just laid the first two planks on the first one last night.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1dc35b3127ccefc096ce55bd600000030O01IYs2bRw2Zg9vPg4/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
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Oh now that is funny.... ;D