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Herreshoff Forum => Herreshoff Designs Not Built By HMCo => Topic started by: Cardinal Joe on December 02, 2011, 06:41:49 AM

Title: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 02, 2011, 06:41:49 AM: (http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/IMG00012-20110909-1001.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/IMG00011-20110909-1001.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/IMG00010-20110909-1000.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Steve on December 02, 2011, 12:50:16 PM: Could it be a Cape Dory Typhoon, designed by Carl Alberg?
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 02, 2011, 05:25:19 PM: It's a Bridges Point 24, designed by Joel White. http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5646 He was inspired by and acknowledged the Herreshoff influence. See p. 138 in the book 'Joel White', by Bill Mayher.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 02, 2011, 06:26:51 PM: I would have guessed Sea Sprite....There is a BP 24 in my mooring field. I believe hull #2 - was beautifully done - and the owner keeps it very Bristol. They always seemed very similar to Clark Ryders Sea Sprite 23.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Steve on December 03, 2011, 12:01:39 AM: Ya know, the discussions here keep getting better and better :) :)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 09, 2011, 04:25:59 AM: Well is it a Herreshoff ?

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/040.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/039.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 09, 2011, 01:42:08 PM: It's a Stuart Knockabout, based on the LFH "Ben My Chree": http://www.stuartknockaboutllc.com/

You'll probably see more of them during your cruise: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Paoli,+Chester,+Pennsylvania&msa=0&msid=214391513126276332741.0004988e95bf19ca7d13b&ll=38.29981,-60.625992&spn=26.445213,123.756866
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 09, 2011, 04:06:07 PM: Nice - Thanks .... I have more pic's of other poss. Herreshoff Boats .
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 10, 2011, 05:05:30 AM: I believe I raced against "Ben" at the 2010 Herreshoff Regatta. She passed us in the light airs....
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam Langerman on December 10, 2011, 06:10:04 PM: Adam: That was me on an SK named ZEPHYR.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 10, 2011, 11:26:18 PM: Ahh...so that explains the beer cans floating by... :D
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 11, 2011, 03:57:04 PM: (http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/036.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/038.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/037.jpg)

another with covered sails
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/035.jpg)

and another one with wrapped sails
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/042.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/025.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/026.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/044.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/043.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 12, 2011, 03:30:52 AM: FWIW_

Cape Cod Shipbuilding builds the official H 12 1/2 in fg. It has a slight arc to the transom athwartships. Doughdish also builds an fg version, but the transom is flat.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 12, 2011, 03:58:57 AM: So,what are you saying about the above 3 boats ???
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 12, 2011, 05:05:56 PM: Actually the Doughdish is the only exact replica of the original HMCo. Boats. The Cape cod shipbuilding version has a slight curve to the transome to make it easier to remove from the mold - as well as being quite a bit lighter. Only the Doughdish is accepted for racing by the H12 1/2 association.

As has been discussed - Cape Cod Shipbuilding owns the rights to the WOOD builds of these boats. For more info click the Registry link above and see the documents section.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 13, 2011, 01:16:04 AM: That's interesting and may explain the challenge I've heard some have had in getting plans or offsets to build wood reproductions of the H 12 1/2 in the past.

My point about the three boats in the photos was that they were all fg, nothing more.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 13, 2011, 05:34:31 PM: Thanks , but which one is the "Doughdish" ?
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 13, 2011, 09:12:34 PM: I, for one, can't tell the difference among the fg versions except by looking at the builder's plate, the transom or sometimes, the insignia on the sail.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Jon Brooks on December 13, 2011, 10:38:41 PM: All the pictures posted above are fiberglass Doughdish models. They were all built by Eddy & Duff in Mattapoisett, but are now built by Ballentine Boat Works. They built the molds in 1972, using several different wooden Herreshoff-built boats. The hulls are foam-core fiberglass, with teak trim and wooden spars.

Along with the cross-section of the transom, one can easily discern a CCSB boat from a Doughdish by the CCSB's lack of a molded sheer-strake. Most CCSB boats also use copper around the mast where the gaff-jaws wear, while Doughdish, LLC use a layer of fiberglass cloth and resin.

One can easily discern a Doughdish from a wood 12 by the fact that the sheer-strake ends just short of the stem on a Doughdish, while the varnished strake meets the varnished stem on a wood boat. This shows the detail on a wood boat:

(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d739b3127ccefb70abf39cf900000060O00Qct2Tho0YsQe3nwM/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)

And on our fiberglass Doughdish:

(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d727b3127ccec2596d40c36700000100O00Qct2Tho0YsQe3nwM/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)

Here is a CCSB boat:

(http://sailmagazine.com/sail-buyers-guide/CapeCod-h12.jpg)

Notice that there is only a narrow rail where the molded sheer-strake should be, and that the coamings are shorter from the deck-line. They also feature a shallower cockpit sole than either the wood or Doughdish models.

Jon 8)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 14, 2011, 11:38:52 PM: (http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/033-1.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/034-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 16, 2011, 05:20:45 AM: (http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/163.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/046.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/048.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 16, 2011, 02:51:52 PM: From here: http://www.mainebuiltboats.com/

Artisan Boatworks Completes Herreshoff 12½ Replica

Artisan Boatworks of Rockport, Maine, recently launched a Herreshoff 12½ replica built to a set of original offsets discovered by Artisan owner Alec Brainerd. "A year or so ago, while researching a different commission, I was lucky enough to stumble upon the original Herreshoff offsets for the 12½. This is the list of measurements that absolutely and exactly define the hull shape with little or no opportunity for interpretation," Brainerd says. "They were previously thought to be lost. This accidental discovery led me to completely and thoroughly research the 12½'s design and develop a definitive collection of plans, measurements, and construction history."

Brainerd worked with Steve Nagy of The Herreshoff Registry to trace the design modifications that Herreshoff Manufacturing Co. had made through the years and assemble a database of measurements from existing 12-1/2s. He then went to John Palmieri, curator of the Herreshoff Marine Museum, to study the actual half model that N.G. Herreshoff had carved, and then traveled to Mystic Seaport to study Herreshoff's original building jig. Finally, with the help of Halsey Herreshoff and Adam Langerman of Herreshoff Designs, he was able to view Nat Herreshoff's original hand-written design notes.

In July, Artisan crews began building what is probably the first authentically shaped wooden Herreshoff 12½ made since 1943, when Herreshoff Manufacturing Co. built the last one. The new boat was launched in early December and will make her debut at the Maine Boatbuilders Show in March.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 16, 2011, 03:02:25 PM: Quote from: rbgarr on December 16, 2011, 02:51:52 PM
From here: http://www.mainebuiltboats.com/

Artisan Boatworks Completes Herreshoff 12½ Replica

(http://www.mainebuiltboats.com/images/photos/Artisan%20Boatworks%20whisper%20for%20gallery.JPG)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 16, 2011, 05:22:20 PM: This is an interesting thread...Doughdish used three different hulls I believe and Ccsb has an original (had?)12 1/2 and the original molds and Alex did as in the post above...now the only real offsets would come from the model....which is at the HMM...along with Nats offset micrometer....hmmmm....oh Adam L....is this what is stated as Alex studied the model?
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Jon Brooks on December 17, 2011, 01:37:38 AM: The CCSB 12's use the Cape Cod Bullseye molds with modified inserts. That's why they have a shallow cockpit and curved transom.

Jon 8)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 17, 2011, 03:44:45 PM: Navy Blue hull on Martha's Vineyard .....

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/188.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/168.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/101.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/095-1.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/094-1.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/093.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Charles Barclay on December 18, 2011, 02:10:43 AM: Thanks Cardinal Joe, you source an astonishing amount of pictures. Want to share the secret?
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 18, 2011, 05:38:43 AM: That first blue one on the Vinyard looks like a Pices 21 - a chuck paine design Based on the Herreshoff "Fish" class.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 19, 2011, 02:42:40 AM: Quote from: Charles Barclay on December 18, 2011, 02:10:43 AM
Thanks Cardinal Joe, you source an astonishing amount of pictures. Want to share the secret?

Charles - what's that saying '' If i tell you ,i'll have to wack Adam " .... HA!,ha! just kidding ;D
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 19, 2011, 02:54:56 AM: (http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/167.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/165.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/164.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Jon Brooks on December 19, 2011, 11:55:15 PM: Our Doughdish is all put away, and waiting for Santa to rig a bronze sheet block to her club!
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/405890_2334625131621_1429593706_31814983_2115794742_n.jpg)

Jon 8)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 20, 2011, 05:20:56 AM: Quote from: Jon Brooks on December 19, 2011, 11:55:15 PM
Our Doughdish is all put away, and waiting for Santa to rig a bronze sheet block to her club!
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/405890_2334625131621_1429593706_31814983_2115794742_n.jpg)

Jon 8)

Nice ....... make a great postcard or xmas card ;)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 20, 2011, 05:47:51 AM: 26' Herreshoff Alerion
•Boat Name: herreshoff alerion
•Year: 2004
•Located in Osterville, MA
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/2/6/0/8/1260892_1.jpg?1270752628000)

(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/2/6/0/8/1260892_2.jpg?1270752628000)

(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/2/6/0/8/1260892_6.jpg?1270752628000)

(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/2/6/0/8/1260892_7.jpg?1270752628000)

(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/2/6/0/8/1260892_4.jpg?1270752628000)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 20, 2011, 01:01:37 PM: I grew up right behind that clump of trees on the left in the first photo. The gray building just in front of them replaced ones that burned, taking a lot of classic boats in its flames eight years ago, almost to the day: http://www.capecodfd.com/pages%20special/crosby%20yacht%2001.htm

Fortunately, if that word can apply, the wind was from the east blowing the flames and cinders into the water rather than spreading it inland.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 20, 2011, 06:03:06 PM: My Folks live 10 minutes away....I remember that fire. Very sad indeed....
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 20, 2011, 06:41:52 PM: When i was growing up in the sixties those wood storage sheds seemed like fire traps.

There have been as many Wianno Seniors built since then as were lost, so the class is doing okay.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 21, 2011, 05:36:21 AM: CHILMARK, MA- Martha's Vineyard Coast Guard Building & Pier Catch Fire (07-12-10)
MENEMSHA -- A U.S. Coast Guard building, pier and truck on Martha's Vineyard caught fire and were engulfed in flames this afternoon. The area, including the beach, has been evacuated.

The boat house and pier are located at the Coast Guard Station in Menemsha.

The fire started at 2:42 this afternoon, Coast Guard Petty Officer Connie Terrell said. It is unclear what started the blaze.

The boathouse, pier, a truck and the trailer that carries the station's 25-foot boat caught fire, she said. The boat was in Woods Hole when the fire started.

Another 47-foot boat had just gotten underway when the pier caught fire, she said.

Local fire departments have responded to the scene and Coast Guard personnel and equipment from other stations, including the Coast Guard Cutter Sanibel out of Woods Hole, are covering the area, Terrell said. There are 22 Coast Guard crew members stationed at Menemsha.
There are no reports of injuries and the cause of the fire is not yet known, she said.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 21, 2011, 05:44:48 AM: I took some foto's after the fire ..... there are 4 youtube videos on this fire ....
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/125-2.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/127-1.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/126-1.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/128.jpg)
This boat is in one of the videos
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/130.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 21, 2011, 06:37:49 AM: So,is this a Herreshoff Design ?

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/070.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/069.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Charles Barclay on December 21, 2011, 03:22:20 PM: No. Shields One Design? probably FRG.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 21, 2011, 05:27:41 PM: Ok, Is this a Herreshoff Design ?

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/071.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/074.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/072.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/073.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Jon Brooks on December 21, 2011, 08:46:59 PM: That looks like a Sparkman & Stephens design.

Jon 8)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Adam on December 21, 2011, 09:15:36 PM: I would have said the same - S&S... but who knows... so many good CCA era designers. Don't think the one above is a shields - looks too big and too many winches..6 meter maybe?
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 22, 2011, 12:21:50 AM: It is a Shields. I own #56 and they now can have two sets of winches per side. And Magic Carpet, the yawl, is also an S&S (as is the Shields). All those photos were taken in Edgartown, where MC 'lives' and there's a fleet of Shields.

Here's a link to some wild photos of them racing there: http://www.shieldsclass.com/images/Shields_Natls_2004_EYC/index_92.htm
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 22, 2011, 04:18:38 AM: All those photos were taken in Edgartown, where MC 'lives' and there's a fleet of Shields.

TRUE............ :)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 22, 2011, 04:14:03 PM: (http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/207.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/206.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 23, 2011, 05:27:25 AM: (http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/195.jpg)

(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd432/jcannavo/196.jpg)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 23, 2011, 06:00:57 AM: I think that's an older photo of Varua, a Braidwood '7 Meter' when she was moored in Vineyard Haven. the boat lives here in Boothbay Harbor now.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 24, 2011, 02:40:14 AM: Quote from: rbgarr on December 23, 2011, 06:00:57 AM
I think that's an older photo of Varua, a Braidwood '7 Meter' when she was moored in Vineyard Haven. the boat lives here in Boothbay Harbor now.

Do, you think you can obtain a foto of her this summer :)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: rbgarr on December 24, 2011, 05:46:06 PM: I found a photo I took and I was wrong about that ID.
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on December 25, 2011, 12:18:10 AM: Missing pictures of boat posting ????? I'm over @ a friends house using there computer and it appears that there are empty foto's in my posting !
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on January 03, 2012, 07:01:32 PM: ???????????? 36' 1978 Morton Herreshoff Chesapeake ??????????

Description/Condition
This is a beautifull rare hand built vessel .......

(http://images.boats.com/resize/1/24/6/3232406_0_080220111650_1.jpg?f=/1/24/6/3232406_0_080220111650_1.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1297212632000)

(http://images.boats.com/resize/1/24/6/3232406_0_080220111650_2.jpg?f=/1/24/6/3232406_0_080220111650_2.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1297212632000)
Title: Re: Is this a Herreshoff Design ?
Post by: Cardinal Joe on January 21, 2012, 10:26:36 PM: (http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_1_0.jpg?f=/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_1_0.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1307390302000)

(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_4_0.jpg?f=/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_4_0.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1307390302000)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_5_0.jpg?f=/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_5_0.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1307390302000)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_6_0.jpg?f=/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_6_0.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1307390302000)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_9_0.jpg?f=/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115822_9_0.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1307390302000)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115847_1_0.jpg?f=/1/97/28/1029728_0_20110606115847_1_0.jpg&w=600&h=450&t=1307390327000)