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Herreshoff Forum => Herreshoff Designs Not Built By HMCo => Topic started by: sailorbrew on July 30, 2012, 11:51:24 PM
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I am currently an owner of an 18 foot Scout, designed by Halsey H. I am currently trying to sell it. Meanwhile, I am looking for my next boat to build. I have long been interested in the Carpenter found in L.F. Herreshoff's Sensible Cruising Designs. I got lucky and found a copy of the original hardbound format at Half Price Books for 7.98. I just love it when I find a deal like that. The plates are so much nicer than in the newer soft bound edition. Anyway, I digress.
I am curious about the original design of the Carpenter, I have not found much information on the sailing version of that design. And I do not count the Sea Pearl as a Carpenter. It is a plastic derivative at best. I know there are one or more genuine articles out there. But most of the time, if you search the web for a Carpenter, you come up with a plastic imposter.
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of the sailing qualities of the Carpenter? Or knowledge of someone who does? It seems like quite a seaworthy boat, but it appears to be somewhat undercanvassed. But maybe I am wrong about that. With the substantial freeboard of the hull, and only 69 feet of sail, I wonder if one could get it to move very well on inland lakes. I also wonder if it would be difficult to tack in strong winds due to the high freeboard, flat run, and conservative sail area. Or is that just a matter of skill, that I could overcome with paractice?
These are some of the reasons I am interested in it.:
1. It looks nice.
2. It might be well suited for cruising the Apostle Islands of Lake Superior.
3. I would like to be able to launch the boat in one bay, row under a bridge or two, then set up the rig and sail in bigger water.
4. I also want a light, open boat that I can sail off a trailer.
I am not one who cares much about speed, but I would like the boat to move enough on an inland lake to have the sense that I am actually sailing, and be able to get from point A to point B without having to time the leg with a calendar!
Anyone have any ideas?
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Hi Sailor Brew - The Carpenter was his design #41 and was originally a tender for his 1929 Walrus motor sailor (design #19). Don't know about a sailing version - and I've never seen one (not even a Sea Pearl) so I couldn't comment on the sailing qualities - but you might want to do the following:
Contact http://www.nwboatschool.org/ - they built a wood one (rowing) and might have some comments to its handeling - or know of a sailing version.
Contact The folks at Sea Pearl and ask who the Naval Arch was that re-designed her - they might have comments as to her sailing abilities as well as why they modified her design.
Contact Mystic - As I believe they have the original plans for study.
Contact a NA of your choice and ask for an opinion.
Post on Wooden Boat Forum and see if anyone built one.
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Have the book, have the plans, talked to NW Boatbuilding School a few years ago, when they first put it up for sale. Small Boats 2008 has an article by Jenny Bennett, that will probably tell me more than most can. Would still love to hear from someone who has actually sailed one.
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My dad owned the Carpenter for may years. He did a total restoration of the boat starting around 1962 and sailed it in and around Cohasset Ma until the late 1970's. I have full plans of the boat and can certify that as a sloop rig, it sailed very well. Let me know if your are interested. I have lots of old pictures.
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HI DDD- I would be interested to see those photos of Carpenter. What ever actually came of the boat?
Beyond that- for comparison- I have built replicas of Sir Ernest Shackleton's ship's boat which came to be known as the "James Caird" Being aware of the Carpenter design (and a student of L. Francis H.) I had it in mind when we were building and sailing the James Caird both for the movie cameras and for exhibitions and also for some plain fun. James Caird is a bit larger than Carpenter at 24 ft, has a standing lug mainsail and would sail along quite nicely. Having no centerboard or much of a keel and no rocker she was slow to tack, however. But other than this shortcoming she was just fine. (On the "replicas" I actually left more of a curved keel exposed below the rabbet line than on the original in hope of giving it something to hang on a little going to windward and also maybe to help her turn when tacking)
I am betting that the Carpenter would do better to windward and tack better as well with the center board as drawn. I would really like to know more about it. Probably Carpenter is a better rowing boat that the James Caird.
Recently I made the acquaintance of Charles Welch, grand nephew to C.A. Welch. He remembers his great uncle and I will hope we can learn something....... (maybe about why Albatross was not built?) Cheers/ JC