1925 Herreshoff fish class for sale

[cinqueneuf]

I am considering selling my 1925' Marconi rigged Fish Class Sloop to an appreciative new custodian. "Butterfly" is sitting in Essex, CT. She has been well maintained and gently sailed during the 6 years that I have had her. She has the varnished oak sheerstrake that the post war Fish Class boats are known for. Her hull is finished in Epiphanes dark blue set off with a white boot stripe. Her considerable brightwork is in nice shape and mast recently refinished. Her cabin top and aft deck are bright mahogany(in lieu of painted canvas) and her main deck is traditionally painted Bristol beige. Her sails are in excellent shape; main, jib, genoa and spinnaker. She has original bronze winches and fittings, and stainless wire rope rigging.  It is with great reluctance that I offer her to the market, but I simply don't sail her enough to justify keeping her. I will post some pictures as soon as I can figure out how! Any inquiries to: cinqueneuf@yahoo.com . Thank you

[Adam]

Hi - can you tell me more about your Fish? I don't see her in the registry - with only "AUNT EPPIE" (941) and "ANDY GUMP" (976) being the only 1925 class of Fish we've documented....

[Adam]

here are some shots of her:

[cinqueneuf]

Thank you Adam, for posting the photos. They are not of the greatest quality but I shall endeavor to get some more detailed pics with better definition ASAP. Here is a great link for basic info on the fish's in general:

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/doc/Class_Description_Fish.pdf

I am more and more convinced that Butterfly was one of the 9 fish class boats built for the Warwick Country Club fleet and delivered 1925-26. Research continues, interrupted by frequent bouts of work!

Another excellent history is also here at the Herreshoff Registry:

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/doc/Fish_History_Meyer.pdf

Thanks to Adam and Steve for the immediate and most useful assistance. I will post some more as soon as I get to a port with better wifi service.

[Adam]

No problems Colin, happy to help.

Questions - when you get a chance I would like to know what info you have so that we can do a bit more research.... What makes youy convinced 1925?  and of the "Warwick Fish Class"?

This is what I know:

1. There are 12 Fish contracted in 1925 - #'s - 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, and 978.
2. The "Warwick Fish Class" ones (and I count 5 in the record not 9) are 972-76. Two others may have been contracted for this class (977 and 978) but seem not to have been delivered to them (?) and sold at a later date (1926) to different people.
3. Only one of the Warwick class has been located - #976 Andy Gump.

[Steve]

I gave Colin some of that information, and I think I can help:

3 boats were contracted in early 1925 and delivered to WCC for the 1925 season:  939, 940, and 941.

A 4th boat, 942, was delivered to Halsey DeWolf (I assume of Bristol) in 1925 and was not part of the WCC fleet.  A 6th boat, 943, was also delivered in 1925, but most likely not to WCC.

7 boats were contracted later in 1925 and at least 5 were delivered to WCC for the 1926 season: 972, 973, 974, 975, and 976.  The other 2, 977 and 978, were delivered in 1926 but not specified in the record as going to WCC.   That makes a total of 10 possible boats going to WCC, but at least 8.  Rick Meyers talked about 9 WCC boats in his document, which is where that figure came from. Let's go with 12 (10 possible WCC boats plus 942 and 943).

Since Colin's boat has a marconi rig and moulded sheerstrake, it could be one of these 12, plus the last 2 boats built, 1379 and 1380.  However, since Colin's boat has an oak sheerstrake and the last 2 had mahogany, BUTTERFLY is almost certainly one of the 12 contracted in 1925 and delivered in either 1925 or 1926.

Of those 12, 941 and 976 have been accounted for.  That leaves as possible candidates the following 10 boats:  939, 940, 942, 943, 972, 973, 974, 975, 977, or 978.

[Adam]

What makes everyone so sure 939-41 went to WCC?

[Steve]

There is an article written by Rick Meyer in 1991 that has a lot of great information on the history of the Fish class:

http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/doc/Fish_History_Meyer.pdf

I spoke to Rick a couple of years back.  I believe his research included a trip to the archives of WCC.  But whether he is correct about these three going to WCC or not, the more important observations are around the sheerstrake and rig.  It is these that I think places the boat in 1925 - 1926.  I think it is more a probabilty (as opposed to a possibility or a fact) that BUTTERFLY went to WCC.

[Adam]

Yes I read the article... Just questioning the validity. The HMCo record is very clear at naming just the five boats the "Warwick Fish Class" - not the others. I surmised 977 & 78 were part due to the contract dates - but the final names and "owners" crossed out in the record lead me to believe they may have gone to others instead - possible a canceled order?

I suppose that the names are also a clue though with the first three - both Katrina and Aunt Eppie being cartoon characters from the old "Toonerville Train" series. Although Sassy Sally is one I can't figure - but it sounds like a cartoon!

I agree that in the end certainly sounds like BUTTERFLY would be of the 1925 class.

[Steve]

I agree that the HMCo record is quite clear about naming the 5 boats as the Warwick class.  However, my experience indicates that one needs to be very careful with the builder's record as it isn't always perfectly accurate.  This is especially true with that comments column all the way to the right, which is where the Warwick class annotation is.  Also subject to the same caveat is the notation of cancelled orders, which are generally quite clear in the record.

In any case, I think we agree that BUTTERFLY was contracted in 1925.

What I wanna know is:  How did you know about the "Toonerville Train" series?  Now that is certainly an obscure fact!

[Adam]

I'm really a cartoon character and only exist in Toonville. There are no missing Herreshoffs in my registry....

Dosent everyone read Chicago Tribune funny pages from 1908?

BTW - Does anyone know who Edward Bancroft is (and I don't mean the revolutionary war spy)? The name is familiar in yachting terms but can't put my finger on it.....

[Steve]

Isn't Edward Bancroft from Toonville? 

In what context?  I find a reference to Edward Bancroft joining Fairbanks, Clark, and Company in 1843.  It was later re-named to The Corliss Steam Engine Company, the firm for which NGH worked prior to forming HMCo with JB.

[Adam]

He was the person who contracted for Fish 939-41. There was a Edward R. Bancroft class of 01, Brown Univ. from Providence - I assume that is him...but I remember the name from somewhere...

[Steve]

Yup .. I see.  Wonder if he was a member at WCC?

[Steve]

Images from cinqueneuf: