Spinnakers

[Erick Singleman]

Okay, I have what I think is a good research question.

I purchased this video that was on super sale ($6.00) from the WoodenBoat Store.  It is called "Yachting in the 1930's".  Boy, what a great video.  It shows clips of some great boats like Dorade, and several J-Boats, and many others; some really spectacular footage.

anyway, in one section of the video it talks about various sail configurations of the time, and the spinnakers were not the balloon type that is currently in fashion, but rather a triangular type that does not go past the fore-stay.  I believe the Herreshoff 12 1/2 originally had this older style spinnaker, as I think I read that the H-12 association allows the use of either style during races.

So, finally getting to my question, does anyone know what year the newer balloon style spinnaker would have been developed, and when the H 12 1/2s would have started using them?

[Adam Langerman]

Newport 30 with early type spinnaker in the 1890s?  J. S. Johnston photo from www.jsjohnston.org 



Really not too different from the asymmetricals that have become popular today.  Difference being hanked on luff and sail area.   Like on STREAKER, which is a 1912 hull design with modern foils and rig.

STREAKER:

[Adam]

I believe the early "Ballooners" looked more like this - rigged before the forestay:



I believe it was the J class that brought them forward - or at least popularized it - to the config we see today:



When exactly, I don't know but I'd bet early 30's late 20's? Any guesses?

[Adam Langerman]

1887:  It's a flatter sail, but that's definitely a pole...

[Adam]

Well I'm no Chapelle (painfully obvious at times) but I believe that is a "Studdingsail" - and the Pole is a Studdingsail Boom....

Or an old beadsheet hung out to dry.

Whichever....

 

[Adam Langerman]

The names may change, but the wind and the water hasn't.  And the goal of all these sails has been and will continue to be to get down wind as fast as possible (or at least faster than the guy next to you).

PS. We got Streaker up to 11kts during last nights race.

[Erick Singleman]

I think I have my terms mixed up.  I used the term balloon spinnaker to mean today's version of a a spinnaker, but this must be incorrect.  I am hell bent to restore my 1941 12 1/2 to be as close to what she was when she left HMC as possible.  Meaning I don't want to have a modern spinnaker like used in the H-12 association races if they were not in fashion in 1941.

So, I'd like to find out what the spinnaker of a 1941 HMC 12 1/2 would have looked like.  I didn't see a sail paln for that when I was at MIT, but I wasn't looking for it either.

[Erick Singleman]

The following is taken from the H-12 association rules


Spinnaker:
Luffs and leeches stretched under five labs. tension only. Foot stretched only a sufficient amount to remove wrinkles across the line of measurement from tack (clew) to clew.
 
Parachute type:    luffs    14' 6"
     foot    9' 6"
Single luff type:    luff    14' 6"
     leech    14' 6"
     foot    9' 6"

So, I guess the modern spinnaker that I commonly see is called a parachute type.  The single luff type must be the older style that I probably want if that is what would have been used in 1941.

[Adam]

Hi Erick - I'm sure someone in the know will respond, but I'd bet that by the mid 30's no one was using the "old" design....I went through the Rosenfeld and Fortier collections and I see photo's going back to the 30's, 40's and 50's and don't see one shot with an "old" style spinnaker. Interestingly I can't recall ever seeing a 12 with that configuration in photo's or not - nor did it occur to me that one would have the old style chute. I also wonder if all 12's had spinnakers - I've seen plenty of photo's of downwind runs not flying them in fleet races.

[Erick Singleman]

Adam,

It's interesting you mention the mid 1930's because in that video I have of Ranger in the America's cup of 1934, she is still using the old style spinnaker.  So it could have been the mid-late 30s when the change over occurred.  You would think that the development of a new spinnakere design would come form the America's cup, but there was no cup after 1938 until after the war.  So if it came from racing, it would have had to come from another class, and would have had to gain prpularity and migrate down to the 12 1/2 in as few as 6 years to make 1941, which is certainly possible I guess.

I don't know about 12 1/2 spinnakers earlier than 1938, but the 1938 plans detail a spinnaker pole.

[Erick Singleman]

Some research results...

"The International Rule gave us many classes, most notably the Twelve Metres that raced in America's Cup matches from 1958 to 1987, and the Six Metres, which were the focus of development for decades. It was in Sixes that the first overlapping jib was proved—on a racecourse in Genoa, giving us genoa jibs—and the first-ever headsail arsenal (5 sails) was seen aboard Nancy in the 1932 British-American team races. Before that time, the "parachute spinnaker" had already debuted on a Six, and later, Briggs Cunningham would introduce the first "cunningham" on the mainsail of a Six. You get the point."

Additionaly I found a reference were it states the Harold S. Vanderbuilt did not like the "new" parachute spinnakers as he felt that they were temperamental and required excessive monitoring.

Therefore since they were around in the early 1930s and would be potentially less "temperamental" when used on a smaller boat as compared to the huge J-class boats.  They could have very well been the choice on 12 1/2s by 1941.

[Adam Langerman]

You could always build both... 

[Adam]

The Photo of Ranger abouve is from 1937.

The photo Below is by Fortier off Padanaram. No date... but anywhere from Late 40's to 60's is a guess: