Author Topic: Sail Identification - Thoughts?  (Read 8990 times)

JeffreyBoal

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Sail Identification - Thoughts?
« on: August 04, 2009, 12:07:02 AM »
I am marching toward the end game of the restoration of HMco No. 586 "Nellie" and am interested in anyones thoughts on protocol for sail/class identification.  Nellie was a part of a class of three mid-sized racer/cruisers the others being Trivia and Azor.  Trivia is at the museum and Azor was lost.  I'd love your thoughts on the sail identification to stitch aloft... an H... an H + 34 (her LWL)?  Based on all the old Rosenfeld photos I have scoured all I would put on the sails is %17 which was a part of her rating.

Steve

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Re: Sail Identification - Thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 12:12:09 AM »
Jeff:  This has been a hot topic lately.  We just set something up for the 15-footers.  Read the front matter of the 15-Footer Registry, available from the Registries drop-down menu on the main site.  You don't happen to know what number Nellie used to wear ?

JeffreyBoal

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Re: Sail Identification - Thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 12:19:01 AM »
Nellie had a P1 identified on her sails in the earlier Rosenfeld pictures and sister-ships Trivia had %16 and Azor had %17 which had to be ratings information.  I would be surprised if indeed Nellie was the first P-rater...

gkim

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Re: Sail Identification - Thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 05:14:24 AM »
Jeff - I believe that the percentages you are referring to were in relation to a handicap system. You will find quite a few boats sailing during the later periods with percentages relating to the time that would be added to their final elapsed time. It does not relate to a class per se.

In terms of the class designation P - 1, Nellie may well have been the first Universal boat rated as a P-class boat. Look at the Skene "Elements of Yacht Design" and you will have find some information on how various class were designated. Early in the Universal system, yachts (especially gaff rigged boats) tended to be at the upper end of sail area and shorter in waterline length and smaller in displacement. By the 1910 or 1911, the boats moved towards the other end of the rule envelope, that is bigger displacement and smaller sail areas. In summary, given Nellie was launched right around the time that Herreshoff put forward the Universal Rule and many yachtsmen would have given the "new" rule a try, I think it is quite possible that Nellie was the first rated P-class Universal Rule boat. She may not have been designed with the rule in mind, but that does not take anything away from her being the first.

Hope that helps.

Glenn

Adam

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Re: Sail Identification - Thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 04:55:47 AM »
I searched around quickly for Nellies racing records to see if there was any mention of the P-Class. My usual source is the NYT Archives as yachting in those days was front page news on the sports pages (can you imagine....) - they repeatedly call Nellie and Trivia "cruisers" and I've found no racing records - but I only gave a quick look....When I have the time I'll look deeper....

Jon Brooks

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Re: Sail Identification - Thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 10:19:50 PM »
Adam and I crewed on Trivia, so call us when you need help!

Jon  8)