Marlin?

[Steve]

Is Josh talking about Charlie Dhyse's boat?  If so, it is definitely NOT an HMCo Marlin.  It was built by Warren Shipbuilding, later to be taken over by CCSB.

See http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=529.0

[Adam]

He doesn't know - sounds like neither did Maynard - just that they both agreed it wasn't a Herreshoff.

But the real issue is we have at least 6 wood Marlins (7 if the boat Charlie sold is not the one from Warren Shipbuilding). Two must be repro's. One is the one Josh sold. Which is the other - Marlin, Sanibel, or Little Dipper?

[Adam]

I confirmed with Josh that the hull he sold was indeed Charlie Dhyse's boat. That leaves one extra hull if I got this down right....So who is the imposter?

[HerreshoffHistory]

Adam and Steve, thanks for your good research! What an intriguing
problem. Five boats competing for the space of four.

Previous comments by Steve seem to indicate that there are builder's
plates for two boats:

#1420s [Marlin Cruiser for Dr. H. D. Lloyd], Today: Matsya
and
#1507s   [Marlin Cruiser], Today: Yare

Steve, could you please confirm these builder's plates and what is the
source of information?

Next boat to deal with is #1422s Little Dipper. #1422s is recorded in
the Herreshoff Construction Record as having been sold to Frank
Gulden, Jr. under the date of August 8, 1938. The 1940 Lloyd's
Register lists Frank Gulden as the owner of a boat of a Marlin's
dimensions named Little Dipper and built by Herreshoff in 1938. The
thread in the Wooden Boat Forum
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142034 clearly shows a
Marlin with the name Little Dipper on its transom. That thread also
mentions a blueprint with the handwritten words "Little Dipper" on it
and the name Gulden Jr. From the description that blueprint is clearly
the original HMCo Marlin  construction plan number 075-071 dated
September 2, 1938. I feel that #1422s has satisfactorily been
accounted for and that the references to "Tradewinds" and "Sanibel"
should be removed in the Herreshoff Registry entry for #1422s.

This would mean that there are now two boats competing for the HMCo
building number of #1421s:

Sanibel, the boat which was formerly named Tradewinds and seems to be
in Islip NY owned by Godfrey Frable and

Marlin, the boat sold by HMM and the subject of a blog by John Hedley at
http://restoringmarlin.blogspot.com/

It would be interesting to know more about the documentations of these
two boats to see if they provide additional clues. Steve, may you be
able to help?

Oh, and to add a little to the confusion, here is another boat that I
also can't identify: The 1940 Lloyd's Register lists Wingar II ex-
Nautilus, owned by Edgar S. DeMeyer of Groton, Conn. Her dimensions
were LOA 20-9, LWL 16-0, beam 7-2, draft 3-6 and she was listed as
having been built by Herreshoff in 1935. Her dimensions mean that she
can only be one of the four Marlins built in that time period or one
of the two Fish class boats built in that period. I suspect the former
but do not know which one of the four she might be.

For what it's worth, I am aware of only two Marlins listed in Lloyd's
Register: Little Dipper and Wingar II ex-Nautilus.

[Steve]

From the builder's record, we know that there were four Marlins:  1420, 1421, 1422, and 1507.

1420 is currently MATSYA and lives on Jamestown.  This is confirmed by correspondence with the owner in 2010.

1507 is currently YARE and lives on Mt. Desert Island with the original family.  This is from HMM correspondence and corroborated by correspondence with Maynard.

That leaves two hull numbers, 1421 and 1422, and two boats without plates, MARLIN and SANIBEL.

I believe MARLIN to be 1421, based on HMM correspondence from the Kenyon family.  I also believe SANIBEL to be 1422.  The boat was acquired by a prior owner from the LI Maritime Museum, who accessioned it in 1987 as TRADEWINDS.  What I learned from this discussion is that it was named LITTLE DIPPER when Gulden owned it.

Now if only I could find the 12-1/2 once named LITTLE DIPPER !

[Adam]

OK - so the second LITTLE DIPPER - Owned by "Dandy" in RI - I will reach out to him and ask for more. Maybe we miss-interpreted what he wrote? Could it be he once owned her (from his father) and doesn't have it any longer? Could she really be SANIBEL? It seems Maynard and Josh could tell right away that the one in ME was not a Herreshoff boat (I assume by construction method) - could we ask SANIBEL's new owner to take some pics for you folks to look at? I will ask Dandy the same....I can't imagine "MARLIN" to be a repro being that she was housed at HMM - Can't imagine Halsey, Adam, a curator, or anyone else there making that mistake - though I suppose it does happen.

[Erick Singleman]

Not to confuse matters, but I was interested in a Marlin about eight years ago that was in Maine.  The owner even sent me some pictures of the boat, that unfortunately are lost on an old computers hard drive.  He was selling it for $10,000 at the time and I kick myself for not buying it then because the boat looked to be in very good shape.  It did not have a builder's plate, but from my recollection It looked like an original to me.  I do recall that the coaming/cabin trunk was painted white instead of varnished and that the hull was white with green bottom paint.  Also if I remember correctly, it may have been in the classifieds of a WoodenBoat mag. from around 2003 or 2004.  If I have time someday, I'll see if I can find the ad and maybe call the previous owner to see if I can track the boat down.

[Adam]

Erick - If you could - it might be worth while to check those ads when you get a chance.  I'll reach out to Dandy today....

I'd like to revisit a couple of things....The record shows 4 Marlin class. How sure are we that is the case. Would there have ever been a situation that the record put down a Fish class but they were actually building a Marlin? Or would it be possible that someone brought a Fish back to HMCo. (or even a third party builder) and had it modified to a Marlin. Long Shot but just asking if anyone can see this happening.

Also I remember Jon stating that his Dad sailed on a Marlin out of Huntington LI in the 50's or early 60's maybe - a colleague of his from work I believe. SANIBEL was found in Huntington. Mr. Brooks is rather versed in things Herreshoff, I doubt he would have been thrown off by a repro... Maybe Jon can ask his Dad if he remembers her name?

   

[HerreshoffHistory]

Erick Singleman wrote:
>I was interested in a Marlin about eight years ago that was in Maine.
>The owner even sent me some pictures of the boat, that unfortunately
>are lost on an old computers hard drive.  He was selling it for
>$10,000 at the time and I kick myself for not buying it then because
>the boat looked to be in very good shape.  It did not have a builder's
>plate, but from my recollection It looked like an original to me.  I
>do recall that the coaming/cabin trunk was painted white instead of
>varnished and that the hull was white with green bottom paint.  Also
>if I remember correctly, it may have been in the classifieds of a
>WoodenBoat mag. from around 2003 or 2004.

Might it be this here?

WoodenBoat May/June 2004, p. 153:

22' HERRESHOFF MARLIN, 1947.
Bristol. Grandfather of the 12 1/2. Excellent
condition. $15,000. ME. 207-967-5357.
<lalunaazul[at]adelphia.net>.

Looks to me like the Warren Shipbuilding / Northeast Boat Brokerage
Marlin that was discussed here previously.

We still have five Marlins competing for the space of four.

And I still haven't seen credible evidence to refute my belief that
#1422s was and is Little Dipper...

[Steve]

fyi

[Erick Singleman]

Might it be this here?

WoodenBoat May/June 2004, p. 153:

22' HERRESHOFF MARLIN, 1947.
Bristol. Grandfather of the 12 1/2. Excellent
condition. $15,000. ME. 207-967-5357.
<lalunaazul[at]adelphia.net>.

Looks to me like the Warren Shipbuilding / Northeast Boat Brokerage
Marlin that was discussed here previously.

We still have five Marlins competing for the space of four.

And I still haven't seen credible evidence to refute my belief that
#1422s was and is Little Dipper...

I believe that was ad.  The email sounds familiar.  I sent a note to them at that email.  Maybe they can give us the name of who owns her now.  That is if the email is still good after all these years.

[Erick Singleman]

I heard back from the previous owner of the boat from the 2004 WoodenBoat ad.  I notified him that there was a Marlin for sale right now at the Northeast Boat Brokerage website, and he confirmed after looking at the photos that that is his old Marlin.   He told me that the boat was manufactured in 1944 by one of the Haffenreffer's after HMC was sold.  He thinks one of them tried to make a go of it building boats (was that how Qunicy Adams got started?)

I contacted Northeast, and that Marlin had just sold.

[Erick Singleman]

A little history directly from the owner of the Marlin in the 2004 WoodenBoat DERVISH

Erick, Shortly after the HMC went out of business one of the managers, Haffenreffer was his name, set up shop down the street with some of the original molds and some HMC workers joined in. Thus Dervish was produced around 1945. I never saw a plate on it or any builders mark and I went stem to stern on her. My understanding was it was sailed around Bristol, then another owner for many years in CT; then ended up in back in RI with Geoffrey Warner and family. I bought it from him. I would know the boat if I saw it of course, since sawdust and paint fumes are now part on my DNA. I have plenty of old wooden boats around still to keep me busy… I will look on the registry as you suggested. By the way Geoffrey Warner is still in RI I believe, the name of the town escapes me.
Daniel

[Adam]

So is the one Erick describes the same one built by Warren Boatbuilding? Or do we have two Marlin built by two separate non HMCo. builders?

[HerreshoffHistory]

Dervish, the Marlin Cruiser described by Erick Singleman is indeed the same as the one just sold by Northeast Boat Brokerage. From what I understand, she was built by Ernest Alder's Warren Boat Yard, Inc. [note: not Warren Shipbuilding] in Warren, R.I.

Until 1939 Warren Boat Yard had been known as The Alder Manufacturing Company. I cannot confirm that the Haffenreffers were involved with the Warren Boat Yard. Ernest E. Alder had been the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company's superintendent of the Wood Department in 1917. Having been built by Ernest Alder, Dervish really has a lot of Herreshoff genes in her. She is almost a Herreshoff.

All this does not change the fact that, not counting Dervish, we still have five Marlin Cruisers competing for the four building numbers assigned to the class by the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company.